Sorry, but you are the one confused. Those Laws are legal. The Statute you keep insisting on was illegal, because it was suspended and changed by an unfair Court after it was approved in referendum. That was the beginning of what just happened today.
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So who deems it unfair? (that same minority of voters that “won” the vote?)
I can kind of appreciate where @Diegolm is coming from on this. Some Catalonians arranged a referendum. Many more attended to vote because they took it seriously.
But those who took it seriously were also generally in favor of independence. Those who were opposed felt the move was an illegal election (even if a popular one), so why validate it by showing up to vote? It lacks the authority of most elections where you have to acknowledge that staying home is bowing out, and casts some unnecessary doubt on the proceedings. It makes it hard to say it is truly a matter of popular will.
If the referendum were under the auspices of the UN, EU, or some other body that made it clear that this not just an irate minority of Catalonians, then these questions would not arise. (In this case, I still don’t think this would be enough to stop the pending violence, but it would certainly make the issue less morally and legally grey.)
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The most important question here is whether other countries (and the right countries) recognize Catalonia as an independent country or not. The process by which they declare independence is only important insofar as it affects whether other countries recognize the legitimacy of the declaration. In our day and age that recognition will only be granted if Catalonia declares independence with a strong mandate demonstrated democratically. The legality of the votes taken to declare independence it will affect whether other countries see it as legitimate but is not necessarily a defining factor. It will be interesting to see which (if any) countries recognize Catalonia as independent. I doubt any Western countries will. I imagine the Québec government will though.
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Because it violated a Constitution that was also approved in referendum by an overwhelming majority of Spaniards, including an overwhelming majority of Catalonians (95% of voters, 2.7 million of yes votes), actually more than those that voted for the latest version of the Statute (73% of voters, 1.9 million of yes votes).
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Care to tell me what do you think should the newly Republic authorities do with those people that refuse to follow its new laws?
This is a good question and I have asked that myself. Note that it can be applied to Spanish Law (for independentists) and Catalan Law (for unionists). Law needs to be recognize by the people who is subjected to it. If you need to use violence to apply the Law over millions of people, then you are in a dictatorship.
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So far, it seems that only South Ossetia is ready to recognize Catalonia as an independent country. Perhaps Abkhazia and Donetsk will do that soon too.
The Statute voted in referendum in Catalonia (2006) had already been approved by Spanish Congress (check it). It would be weird that they agreed to an unconstitutional Statue.
The Spanish Constitution was voted in 1978 after 40 years of dictatorship. How many of the people who voted it are alive? I think it’s time to move on.
I refuse to let them leave us here with the rest of those crazies!
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When was the US Constitution voted? How many Germans voted for their Common Law?
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It was ratified over a period of about three years (1787-1790) by the legislatures of each of the thirteen states.
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Blockquote So who deems it unfair? (that same minority of voters that “won” the vote?)
Very good question. I can answer with several articles from El País, a newspaper nobody can say is for independence. They are in Spanish, so use translate if you don’t speak it:
-El PP recurre 30 artículos del Estatuto catalán que aprueba con el mismo texto en el andaluz | España | EL PAÍS
-El presidente del Tribunal Constitucional defiende su militancia en el PP | Politica | EL PAÍS
-Denunciado un juez del Constitucional por amenazar con una pistola | España | EL PAÍS
-Cazan al magistrado del Constitucional Enrique López conduciendo en moto ebrio y sin casco
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You haven’t been paying much attention to the USA for the past nine months, have you?
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But the supposed way in which violates the Spanish constitution sounds ridiculous to American jurisprudence and traditions. The relevant phrase in the Spanish constitution is “The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards”. To an American that doesn’t actually read as enforcing anything whatsoever, much like the preamble to the US Constitution – it’s just stating purpose and goals. Even reading it as broadly and enforcibly as reasonable, that wouldn’t make the referendum illegal – it would merely make the referendum a legal nullity, with no effect.
Compare with the very next phrase: “recognizes and guarantees the right to self-government of the nationalities and regions of which it is composed”. That clearly is being violated by the actions of the national government.
The judicial traditions of Spain are different, of course, but from outside it really does look like an authoritarian national government pining for the days of Fascist rule, and using their tactics.
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The Prime Minister of Spain is a thief, everybody knows that and he keeps telling others to obey the Law.
Didn’t the United States go to war to prevent the separation of a number of states? A similar referendum was recently declared illegal in Alaska.
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The US went to war with itself over slavery-based economics; please don’t minimize our bloody, ugly history to make your point.
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It should also be noted that in the American Civil war, there was not a referendum followed by a declaration of independence. There was an election result that one side didn’t like, followed by attacks on United States troops. To suggest that the cases are similar at all is laughable. Especially when all the violence in the case of Catalunya has been the rubber bullets and batons of the rump state’s riot police.
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The rules, the rules do not apply.
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Yep; the comparison was disingenuous, at best.
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