huh?
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That would be surprising, since it’s false. To Russians, anything Ukrainian is far-right.
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And people trying to use his death for a cause that betrayed her.
I don’t remember saying the opposite. I do not have much in common with Femen’s enemies but I’m not going to stay silent when people talk shit about her. People of her cause ABANDONNED HER and the Femens have a toxic management, there’s many testimonials about it in the french news, like Caroline Fourest, a Femen supporter whom has been banned from a TV show after spreading many fake news.
Once more, I don’t remember saying the opposite. I’m just adding some facts in a topic with many people who
fantasize and instrumentalize a women’s death.
I’m french… Are you denying that Aleksandra Shevchenko had link with UNA and Svoboda ?
Putin’s smelly little finger prints are likely on this.
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Helpful hint: the presentation of two Wikipedia pages where her name doesn’t appear doesn’t establish any links (the Libération article doesn’t do so, either). If you’re trying to establish a connection between Shevchenko and one or both of those repulsive far-right Ukrainian nationalist parties you’ll have to cite a reputable source that does so. You’ll forgive the request, but on topics like this we have far too many new commenters here (and a few regulars) who are trollies, shills or useful idiots spreading disinformation on Putin’s behalf.
Knowing the messy politics of the region I’m not saying that a tenuous link is outside the realm of possibility. In general, though, ultra-nationalist right-wingers and fascists of any nationality as a rule frown upon close association and alliances with lefty feminist nudist protesters; it goes against the whole kinder küche kirche view they have of a woman’s place.
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Well, I have the perfect reputable source for you, the official Femen website… Femens used to perfectly show their participation to far right rallies, and then the articles mysteriously went offline…
Official Femen blog (waybackmachine archive) : FEMEN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_up,_Ukraine!
Don’t be naive, everyone know Ukraine have a painful history, people like Bandera are basically war heros for many ukrainiens despite the fact that he was a Nazi collaborator… Especially for far right militants from Svoboda, Right Sector, Azov, etc… For anyone interested in current and past eastern-Europe history, it is not that surprising…
Check my profile, I’m lurking BB since 4 years… Way before pro-russian driving trollies was a popular thing. We desagree ? Ok, but I’m not here to trolley. I’m here to provide some informations with sources.
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Thanks for the link and photos. The translation isn’t that great but it sounds like Femen are opposed to nationalist thugs of any sort, including the “marginal guys” standing behind behind them in the photos (perhaps they were trying to bask in the Femen’s more prominent reputation).From articles like this one in Le Figaro it seems that Svoboda thugs often showed up at protests where Femen were the main event, mainly to harrass pro-Russian politicians.
All this is far from definitive evidence for your claim that “Aleksandra Shevchenko had link with UNA and Svoboda”. To compare, in 2003 I attended demonstrations where various far-left nutters were present; to claim on that basis that I have links to Hamas supporters or anarchists would be quite a stretch given my own politics.
Here are a couple of articles that detail the Femen’s politics, one from Slate France and another from Huffpo France. Other than sharing a desire to see Ukraine free of Russian influence and expansionism and their opposition to Islamic fundamentalism (for the Femen a subset of their opposition to all religion, including the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches) their political agendas are quite antagonistic.
I certainly do know that and am not sure why you’re characterising someone who asked for a citation as “naive”. I don’t deny the existence of or make excuses for the current Ukrainian far-right or their lionisation of murderous Nazi collaborators like the Ukrainian Hiwis.
What I also know is that there are also liberal Ukrainians who are opposed to Russia’s far-right expansionist agenda who deplore Svoboda and their ilk (including counterparts abroad like United Russia); based on her behaviour I assume Shevchenko falls into that category.
I did check your profile. Unfortunately we’ve had a lot of long-dormant accounts here suddenly come to vivid and insistent life in order to spread FUD in Russia-related threads.
The only disagreement I have with you at the moment is your still-unsupported claim about Aleksandra Shevchenko being linked to UNA and Svoboda.
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Okay I’ll bite; why make an account, just to “lurk?”
And why the sudden interest in commenting so emphatically, just now?
No other topic has merited a response in that entire time?
Odd coincidence, isn’t it?
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Maybe lurk a little more, before you accuse Femen, as a whole, of being far-right neo-fascist.
And, really, I’m willing to give any Ukrainian the benefit of the doubt, being that they had been under Russian hegemony for the past 500 years, and are even now essentially at war with Russia.
Fascism thrives in situations of chaos, dearth and conflict-- a condition Russia has done everything to foster and sustain. The thing Russia would dislike most in Ukraine is a successful democratic state, prosperous and free of internal turmoil. They’d much rather have the neo-fascists, since such a regime would not respect minority rights and give Russia an excuse to “protect” minorities in Eastern Ukraine.
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We watched it as well last weekend. My wife was fact checking it as it went along, and now we are both interested in learning more about Russia’s history between Stalin’s rise to power and now.
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Plenty of threads here about Ukraine since early 2014 for sure. In fact, Putin’s sockpuppet Yanukovych was kicked out of office the day after our newly vocal commenter was inspired to join this site. Then nothing for 4+ years until this. Not necessarily evidence of being a pro-Russian trolley but certainly odd enough behaviour to warrant a reasonable request for a citation to back up an extraordinary claim.
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huge respect for any progressive political protestor but to do it in Russia is really next-level bravery
this is so horribly sad and virtually nothing that can be done now, but could we someday do a followup on the huge anti-gay problem in Russia and those protestors who have been “disappeared” or even worse by their own countrypeople, not just the government - Russia’s alarming anti-lgbt problem was all the rage in the news a few years ago but not even a peep since
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Assume good faith or flag comments you believe deserve otherwise. There have been more than a few trolls, and they are cleared out by notifying moderators, not by putting your fellow posters on trial.
Thanks.
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Given the sudden frequency that we’ve recently seen of so many long dormant accounts suddenly sparking to life, the timing seems rather… convenient.
Kinda like the fact that Putin’s most outspoken critics and rivals seem to disproportionately end up like the poor woman in the posted article, or worse… a regular occurrence that just happens to conveniently benefit the oligarch in question.
And personally, I have to question the contention that manipulative Russian online trolling has only ‘been a thing’ for a few years at most; if anything, it seems like ‘the rabbit holes’ go way deeper than anyone could have first suspected, across many internet platforms outside of facebook and twitter…
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It’s no secret. Putin came up in the organisation that coined the term “disinformation”, the trolley factory in St. Petersburg is a real thing, the goals of undermining liberal democratic institutions and military and trade alliances in the West in a cost-effective way using local right-wing populists make perfect sense from a geopolitical view (same goes for wanting former Soviet republics/Russian imperial provinces to stay out of NATO and the EU).
As to methods, Adam Curtis has been following this for quite a while. He summarises it in this 2014 piece for Charlie Brooker’s Screenwipe:
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Book marked for later; can’t watch now.
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If you like it he’s done amazing full-length docs in a similar style.
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I hate this uncertainty as to what to believe, even more so because that is exactly what media-jammers are trying to achieve. And it’s such a simple formula – do things so out there that it makes someone sound like a conspiracy freak even to voice their doubt. Yeah, it’s objectively crazy sounding to even suggest that Russia would have bothered to set up accounts on BB, of all places, letting them sit for years until needed. On the other hand, why not? Internet perception/media coverage turns out to be as easily gamed as advertising statistics, and largely uses the same tools.
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