In my experience empty death threats are at least as bad as real death threats, if not worse. A real death threat, made to my face, gets resolved one way or another fairly quickly. But it’s really hard to train your mind and body not to respond viscerally to the constant stress of an unresolved threat, so it screws with sleep and concentration and aggravates minor health conditions. After a while you can get to where you really want to just beat the living crap out of somebody, to let the tension go, and hair-trigger aggressiveness makes it difficult for your friends and family to be around you. Especially if you don’t share with them why you are so stressed out. It might be worse for people who respond to threats with fear rather than anger, because you’re still going to have the stress but there are even fewer constructive ways to vent unresolved fears.
I think you’d have to be really super enlightened not to be mentally messed up by an unresolved death threat, and while I hope to reach that level some day, I sure ain’t there yet. I suspect most people who believe otherwise have never really been threatened.
Time for me to split, I have to get some food before I go back to work. Night, all.
Before any of this went down, did every death threat – misogyny-related or otherwise – made on Twitter and the like get the same kind of attention?
??? Why does this matter? Plenty of shit gets attention on Twitter. This isn’t the first time people have rallied around or against a cause that originated on Twitter. But why would it even matter? It doesn’t make it any less important of a topic.
Surely there are other conversations that can be had about misogyny that can’t be derailed as easily?
I keep bursting into real-life sardonic laughter because LOL ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Surely you’ve paid attention to every. single. fucking. conversation about misogyny and sexism that has ever happened, haven’t you? Not just here but like, everywhere.
This is just more derailing and making it all about how YOU think this discussion should go – this is some weird, fucked up version of “begging the question”. YOU are the one derailing and you are ALSO the one claiming that this particular subject gets derailed more than others … while you are actively derailing (and being asked to stop it). If nothing else, you have a conflict of fucking interest in this point!
I also find it absolutely hilarious that you seem to think this particular discussion about this particular form of misogyny brings on more derailing than any other discussion on misogyny.
in other words, can you show your work and PROVE that this particular topic of discussion is being derailed more so than any other fucking discussion about sexism and misogyny? And don’t use yourself as an example, please.
AND THE BIGGEST QUESTION: Why does it even matter? And why are you the authority on how this discussion should go? Does this effect you in any way? Ugh, STOP DERAILING PLEASE.
Seems a little silly to say it, but that dude is crazy fucking brave for doing that dinner in the fashion he did. Political skewering of which I’ve never seen before or since.
Yeah, that’s a little silly to say. Maybe because GG is the latest symptom in a long, long line of absolutely toxic behavior inside and outside of the virtual world? And it’s made all the worse by the ease with which women are threatened and harassed online?
Besides, are you aware of other death threats on Twitter and the like that deserve more attention?
Yes. @AcerPlatanoides already explained that the photo was referring to moving the goal posts and then I made the connection. I was just stuck. It was right in front of my face. Had I gone a few feet forward, I would have gotten tangled in the nettting.
No you can’t. That isn’t what you did there. You separated misogyny from Gamergate by pointing out that there was/is/will be misogyny that is not specific to Gamergate, which is flawed, since Gamergate was/is/will be misogynistic despite there being other banners misogyny is under… (pretty sure people know that Gamergate isn’t the only misogynist game in town)
You cannot in fact separate Gamergate from misogyny. @marilove + everyone who ever laughed at the Actually meme is/are correct.
[quote=“marilove, post:9, topic:44429”]
Ignoring a problem does NOT make it go away. This argument is brought up every time this subject or related subjects are brought up and I am TIRED OF IT.[/quote]
It all depends on what the motivations of the person doing it are.
While ignoring broad social problems doesn’t seem to work, ignoring attention-seeking trolls doeswork.
The problem is FAR greater than trollies, though. It’s not like trollies are the only sexist or dangerously misogynist people on the internet or in “meatspace”. The motivation of the person I was responding to wasn’t specifically about trollies, first of all.
Besides, in your huffpo link, this is stated:
And finally if you can’t beat them, join them, Hardaker suggests. “Users can mock [the] trolley. That is, they may undertake what appears to be driving trollies with the aim of enhancing or increasing effect, or group cohesion.”
The conclusion to the second:
And finally if you can’t beat them, join them, Hardaker suggests. “Users can mock [the] trolley. That is, they may undertake what appears to be driving trollies with the aim of enhancing or increasing effect, or group cohesion.”
Neither link you provided seems to actually prove your comment that “ignoring attention-seeking trollies does work”. If I’m missing something, please share with me specifically the parts that say exactly that, please.
Science has got some advice on this: don’t let them. Do not feed the trolls.This is the takeaway of a study published in – I kid you not – the Journal of Politeness Research by Dr. Claire Hardaker a linguist who teaches at Lancaster University in the UK. “Trolling can be frustrated if users correctly interpret an intent to troll, but are not provoked into responding,” Ms. Hardaker advises.
I think you’re confusing “be frustrated” with “get frustrated.” According to the American Heritage dictionary, frustrate means “to prevent (someone) from accomplishing a purpose or fulfiling a desire; thwart.”
[quote=“marilove, post:76, topic:44429”]
Also, this statement is contradictory to what I quoted above that states that MOCKING THE TROLLS can also frustrate them…[/quote]
It means there are multiple ways to thwart trolls. Ignoring them is one way, mocking them is another.
Edit 2:
The article says “Trolling can be frustrated” not “Trolls can be frustated.”
All that’s being stated is that trolls can be frustrated. There’s no real clarification on WHY that’s, supposedly, helpful or productive, to the problem at large. The issue at hand is about more than just single troll, for one (institutionalized and internalized sexism also exist; trolling does not exist in a vacuum), and secondly, well, again, okay, trolls apparently become frustrated if you ignore (OR NOCK) them …and…???
In my experience, frustrated bullies don’t just shut up and go away. As many women have experienced, and if you would just watch that viral video of the woman walking down NYC for a clear example: often ignoring the troll (bully) does, in fact, frustrate them, which then angers them and sometimes that anger results in a violent reaction (or a death or rape threat).
What about stalkers? Ignoring them won’t necessarily make them go away.
So no, I don’t think ignoring trolls means that you frustrate them which then means they go away. Unless, again, I’m missing something?
Also, this statement is contradictory to what I quoted above that states that MOCKING THE TROLLS can also frustrate them… So I’m still not clear on how this equals “ignore the trolls”.
Now, using your logic, let’s take out #3. Did those “shrill, desperate attention-seekers” (read: “misogynists making rape and death threats”) go away? No, they’re still there, still pumping out death threats against Sarkeesian. See, the problem existed before the media coverage, not the other way around. Hopefully the media will shine some hot light on these squirming misogynist maggots.
I haven’t posted any derogatory pictures so I’m not sure what you’re talking about? You didn’t have to respond. But I don’t like talking about people secretly or passive aggressively and I had a legitimate point I wanted to make. Shrug.
Then have those conversations instead of complaining that people are having this one, maybe?
I totally agree, but it might be wrong to characterize a too much of this gamergate stuff as driving trollies. It’s always tempting, when someone is being a horrendous asshole, to think they are doing it just for fun or they know how bad they are being. I’d wager most of the time they don’t. Definitely people can be put off if they realize they are being ignored, but if a person’s goal is to shut up those uppity women who don’t know their place, ignoring them might make them more angry and vocal.
In the context of the article MDB referenced, ‘frustrate’ is an active verb that means ‘to thwart’. In the context of your comment, you are using the word ‘frustrate’ as an adjective, e.g. “the frustrated troll couldn’t open her pop bottle”. The way you are using it is more common. The way the article uses it could be read this way:
Ignoring trolls thwarts their intent
Mocking trolls thwarts their intent
The article, MDB and I don’t particularly care whether trolls are frustrated (adj), we only care that they are stopped.
Sorry to get all pedant up in this shit, but I saw you two talking past each other. Carry on.
