So basically you believe the women (including Anita in this Colbert video) should shut up and stop talking about gamergate, which means you also want them to stop talking about the harassment and threats they’ve received
You’re trying to silence the victims. That’s not helpful.
And you’re spending an AWFUL LOT OF TIME talking about how talking about gamergate is so bad … and almost no time speaking out against the hate.
Everybody should read film critic’s hulk latest piece on this. It’s by far the most thoughtful and well written work i’ve seen of this whole ordeal:
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW PROBLEMATIC THIS IS. IT’S ALMOST THOUGHT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE. WHAT HAS ESSENTIALLY HAPPENED IS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN A CULT BEHAVIORAL APPROACH TO DISCUSSION AND PHILOSOPHY - NORMALLY A REALLY DIFFICULT THING TO INSTILL INTO PEOPLE AND REQUIRES ISOLATION, DIRECT PROGRAMMING AND FULL-ON CULTURAL SEPARATION - AND TURNED IT INTO SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN CASUALLY LEARNED ON THE INTERNET’S PROVERBIAL STREETS THROUGH THE ORGANIC PROCESS OF BEING A PART OF VIDEO GAME’S MOST TOXIC SUBCULTURE.
THIS IS ONE OF THE SCARIEST THINGS HULK HAS EVER SEEN.
This is exactly one of my concerns, and one that shows up very clearly on jere7my’s first post.
Really, really good stuff.
I am being VERY CLEAR. You stated this:
Unfortunately, the next time someone wants to make a point, no one is going to end up looking at all this and decide that making a death threat is a bad way to get attention.
Which leads me to believe that you think speaking out against gamergate means that someone might think it’s a good idea to make good on one of the death threats so that they get the attention they want and because of that we should stop talking about gamergate (because if we don’t, someone might follow through on a death threat to get attention and then it’ll be our fault for talking about gamergate).
And that’s a pretty shitty thing to believe.
And uh, yes, it’s about misogyny and speaking out against misogyny and you cannot separate the misogyny from gamergate.
[quote=“marilove, post:42, topic:44429”]And you’re spending an AWFUL LOT OF TIME talking about how talking about gamergate is so bad … and almost no time speaking out against the hate.[/quote]Everyone seems to be spending an awful lot of time talking about how gamergate is so bad instead of speaking out against the hate. That was kind of my point.
That’s an article about how gamergate was founded around misogyny and how people like Whedon, Day, Rogen, Wood, Oswalt, and pretty much everyone but a few right-wing grifters have now come out against it. That’s all but a citation against your hypothetical that shedding light on it could be raising its profile.
I only see you telling people to be silent about gamergate in this discussion. So I have no idea what or who the hell you’re talking about. You’re derailing pretty classically, here. Please stop it.
So nobody should report anything? Where I live you can get a restraining order out against people, or even try.
I never even implied that; this is a straw man. Of course one should report a crime if they are able and feel comfortable doing so, although there are MANY legit reasons why some people, particularly women who are assault or rape victims, choose NOT to make a police report. And THAT was what my snark was referring to: The idea that making a police report is always effective, or even always a good idea. Also the fact that you seem to think all crimes reported are investigated, which is factually incorrect. Just because someone files a police report does not mean the crime will be investigated or taken seriously.
Where I live you can get a restraining order out against people, or even try.
Again, I just want to laugh. What good do you honestly think a restraining order does? I once had to file a restraining order on an abusive man who tossed me against a wall by the neck and choked me. I filed the report so there was a paper trail, but he knew where I lived, and lived less than a mile from me. What fucking good would that restraining order have done if he had decided to come over in the middle of the night and finish the job? Maybe tack on a few extra months to his prison sentence?
Restraining orders aren’t much more than pieces of useless paper that can in fact make things even MORE dangerous and deadly for those who file them (mostly women).
I am not trying to be an ass here, but I honestly don’t think you’re as educated on this subject as you seem to think you are. The police are not the saviors you seem to think they are. Honestly, this has to be clear to anyone who spends any time reading BoingBoing. Imagine telling a woman of color to “just call the police”.
Here, someone with a PhD said it better than I about restraining orders:
Protection Orders Do Not Protect by Charles E. Corry, Ph.D. Letterman Case Shows Problems with Restraining Orders by Jeffery M. Leving, Esq., and Glenn Sacks
I have no idea what you’re trying to imply here. Please use your words. I think you’re giving me a compliment but I’m not sure. 
(Aka woosh, right over my head.)
So what were you intending to imply with this?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Because the police totally have a history of taking threats against women – rape, death, and otherwise – seriously!
And a realistic interpretation of your deeply serious words is not a strawman. Pull the other one sometime, it has bells on it. In the meantime, enough own goals.
Two conversations, two messages. Nuance!
There was a huge chance of that before gamergate, though, right? I mean, no one would have thought that death threats would get attention. Next you’ll be telling me that flying planes into buildings gets attention!
I don’t know if you want to go back and read this whole conversation, but both @marilove and @chenille have been talking about the hate the whole time. They have been saying we shouldn’t stop talking about gamergate because of the hate. It sounds as if you are saying, “Let’s stop talking about the football game so we can talk about the score.” One thing is a function of the other.
And I get that what you are really trying to say is that misogyny is a broad societal problem and gamergate is comparatively a blip. So we should ignore the symptom and talk about the underlying cause (and also the symptom is feeding off the attention). But how can we talk about the underlying problem of misogyny if we aren’t supposed to point out instances of misogyny? It just doesn’t make sense.
Yes I get that, but I still don’t get the meaning of the picture you shared. I admit I’m probably missing something TOTALLY obvious!
But back to our OTHER conversation. I totally disagree with your statements here. Totally and completely. That’s where my snarky laughter came from.
I think there is a deplorable segment of the population that distinguishes between types of death threats.
(edited to add: a segment not often found in law enforcement circles
I take issue with your edit. Law enforcement circles aren’t any better with this kind of stuff, and in fact they are often worse (they hold all the power and authority, after all). Law enforcement often DO NOT take death and rape threats seriously and often do not actually investigate them at all or investigate them well. This is not some new knowledge.
Law enforcement can only investigate reported crimes, that actually happened. And I’m sure they are.
I also disagree pretty strongly with this. You sure they are? Really, really sure? Because I’m not. Not at all.
ah, the picture. the other poster was moving the goalposts.
OH MY GAWD, thank you.
I knew I was missing something ridiculously obvious. And you’re right, @Jorpho was, as usual, moving the goal posts. And you just hit me over the head with them. D’oh. 
the edit was not made in response. We just have different opinions, but I am pretty sure that if harrassment gets to thepoint where you can document it, you can go for a restraining order. Your laughter seemed to say “why bother”, which to me promotes the very silence you’re so clear we should not be. Thus my question.
I would think that, to the degree the harrasment has caused some people to move house, and others to take other action, that at least some of that has included law enforcement. I have no proof of this, but, e.g. Ms. Day at least has made use of the legal system to deal with boundary free fans and haters.
I wasn’t trying to say “why bother” although I do understand that feeling. I was just laughing at your implication that the police are generally usefull in these matters. In fact, often, as I said, bringing the police into it can be even more deadly for certain victims, most notably domestic abuse victims. I suppose my laughter mostly comes from a dark place, because I’ve had to deal with this sort of thing personally and may very likely have to again in the future – I was a victim of revenge porn once before it was a thing and I was the one threatened with a criminal charge (it’s a long story, but the short of it is that the police didn’t take me at ALL seriously).
This isn’t a theoretical discussion for me; I’ve been through a lot of similar abuse and threats, you know?
but, e.g. Ms. Day at least has made use of the legal system to deal with boundary free fans and haters.
Yup. A rich, white celebrity. That doesn’t really say much. I am glad Day has legal resources and I really hope that they work for her, but it’s really, really, really naive and, quite frankly, incorrect, to assume that anyone else is going to have the same sort of out-come as Felecia Day.
I laugh because if I don’t, I may very well cry.
Three observations on this thread, thus far:
I don’t think I’ve seen a new account or a sock-puppet in this thread. Surely, this is a new development in #gamergate threads on #bbs.
in 2006, Colbert spoke truth to power. How fucking relevant is this still, 8 years later (NSA jokes, etc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa-4E8ZDj9s
Reality has a well-known liberal bias @6:40 .
[quote=“Humbabella, post:54, topic:44429”]There was a huge chance of that before gamergate, though, right? I mean, no one would have thought that death threats would get attention.[/quote]Before any of this went down, did every death threat – misogyny-related or otherwise – made on Twitter and the like get the same kind of attention?
[quote=“Humbabella, post:54, topic:44429”]And I get that what you are really trying to say is that misogyny is a broad societal problem and gamergate is comparatively a blip. So we should ignore the symptom and talk about the underlying cause (and also the symptom is feeding off the attention). But how can we talk about the underlying problem of misogyny if we aren’t supposed to point out instances of misogyny? It just doesn’t make sense.[/quote]Surely there are other conversations that can be had about misogyny that can’t be derailed as easily? At the very least, if harassment and death threats are the problem, why not talk about harassment and death threats instead of “gamergate” ?
