Arming the guards? Talk about putting a band-aid on the problem! The only way to stop school shootings is to arm the students.
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Exactly. The greatest threat to students are cops.
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In this case? Is there some other scenario they have in mind here? Columbian drug gangs having shoot-outs on campus? Squads of cinematic terrorists waging jihad? Invasion by China? If so, itâs dumb for another reason as well.
My recollection is that the cop wasnât where they expected him to be, so they encountered him later than they planned (where he was still ineffective). The point, either way, is that they knew about the police on campus and it didnât stop them. Because thatâs not a factor in how targets for events like this get chosen.
A gun in a car, locked or not = unguarded weapon. Guns get stolen this way all the time. If someone wants to commit a school shooting, they now know where to find a weapon. Although youâre right in this probably wonât cause extra problems - because of how easy it is to generally get a gun in this country.
Referring to security in general.
I concur it doesnât stop everyone. I even think we probably donât NEED security like that against things that almost never happen. To say that things like this arenât taken into account I think is incorrect. Yes the Columbine shooters werenât deterred from armed security because they wanted to target the school. However someone like the Theater shooter didnât target the theater, he targeted a target rich environment with little to no opposition.
I think this is worrying about nothing. What âcouldâ happen and what âdoesâ happen are two different things. Most of the time, the shot guns in the center and a rifle in the trunk are secure by more than just the car locks. There is a secondary lock securing them to the car. Yes cops have had guns stolen, but we donât see an epidemic of people busting out windows or punching out trunk locks to get guns. Partly because breaking into a cop car is going to call A LOT of attention to yourself, and partly, as you pointed out, criminals getting guns on the black market isnât that hard.
Also on a separate note, not replying to you specifically, the attitude brought up by guy in charge isnât surprising because he is ex-LEO and his SRO officers are all ex-LEO. If you are going into a building with long hallways I would want a rifle as well. The cops responding to a worst case scenario will probably have them in their trunk. In Columbine there was a school officer who did shoot at one of the suspects at around 60 yards. 60 yards with a hand gun is a hell of a hard shot. 60 yards with a rifle with even just iron sights is not. So I see the reasoning for wanting the tool, but again, the practically of getting too it is there, and also just being at the right place at the right time. One RSO at the East side of a school is going to not be able to do a lot if something starts on the west side of a large school.
But again, I do stress that I agree the overall NEED for this level really isnât there. But people are horrible about being fearful for things that never happen, which is why they flee a shark, but will walk up to a cow, which is much more likely to kill you.
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Iâd posit that their architecture has been converging for decades.
Also happy Columbine shooting anniversary everyone.[/s]
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Which one? At least one seems to have been motivated by the film/audience. (Not counting single shooting events where someone was annoyed by someone in the theater and opened up because they happened to be packingâŚ)
From the point of view of that prison industrial complex, this is a feature, not a bug. That school to prison pipeline is a-flowing in many jurisdictions.
From the point of view of our shared humanityâŚ
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In the early days of SWAT teams, they largely recruited from the ranks of veterans. They largely produced a ton of situations where civilians were accidentally killed by overzealous actions by âbreachingâ cops.
Its one of many reasons why in most hostage situations and prison riots these days the standard operating procedure is to wait and wear down hostage takers. Going in as a last resort.
needs more acronyms.
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Less Guns, Less Crime
-Statistically speaking, guns are rarely used in self-defense, and thus cannot be defended on the grounds that they can reliably defuse crimes while they are happening.
-The NRA bases its claim that guns are used millions of times a year in self-defense on a discredited study from 1995 that has not been validated in a single academic paper.
-Concealed Carry Laws are not associated with decreases in crime, and sophisticated analyses show that, in some cases, there is an increase in aggravated assaults associated with concealed carry laws.
-The best studies to date, using proxies to estimate gun availability, show that more guns lead to more crime.
But the evidence clearly shows that our lax gun laws and increased gun ownership, spurred on by this myth, do not help âgood guys with gunsâ defend themselves, their families or our society. Instead, they are aiding and abetting criminals by providing them with more guns, with 200,000 already stolen on an annual basis. And more guns means more homicides. More suicides. More dead men, women and children. Not fewer.
Mass shooters are completely unconcerned about whether or not an area is a âGun-Free Zone.â A study conducted by Mother Jones found that, in 62 mass shootings over 32 years, there were exactly zero instances of a killer targeting a place because of a gun ban. New data from Mayors Against Illegal Guns confirm this point, by showing that in all 56 mass shootings between 2009 and 2013, âno more than one quarter of the shootings occurred in public spaces that were so-called âgun-free zones.â Neither the motive nor the location of a mass shooting, therefore, have anything to do with âgun-free zones.â
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On behalf of england no. Not worth the trouble.
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A little OT, but this doesnât come up nearly enough in police shooting/gun control discussions. I hear this a lot anecdotally as well, but not hedged quite so nicely as you do. The idea that these clowns who hardly ever shoot are supposed to be the only people we trust with guns is absurd. And if they actually trained enough, I think weâd see a big reduction in shootings. Someone who is calm and confident because they have gone through a situation dozens of times in practice, recently, will be a lot less likely to panic or let their unconscious biases rule the day, besides firing more accurately. The type you mention who only shoots for a yearly test is someone who simply should not be allowed to have a weapon on them, IMO.
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If my orthopedic surgeon only did one surgery a year, Iâd put off getting surgery.
Too bad I canât choose who my police officers are.
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Doesnât anyone want to discuss why mass shootings happen, and what to do to reduce or prevent them?
What that again? Well obviously no. Can we not do that today please?
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You know, I think it might be the opposite, actually. Granted, I have no data to back this up, it would be very interesting to see if police shootings involve âgun guysâ or not more frequently. And are the BAD shoots more likely to be a proficient one, or a less proficient one?
Knowing HOW to shoot well I donât think is as important as knowing WHEN to shoot. Scenario training is much different that the target qualifying they have to do, or shooting drills they might train on.
The reason I think it might be different is this: if you are training more to use a gun, it might become your go-to tactic. Vs someone else might use other methods before resorting to their gun. (Though perhaps it has nothing to do with training, and more on demeanor).
Again - just thinking out loud, I could be 100% wrong. Remember again, if you are a cop who hasnât had a police shooting in 10+ years in your department, the most excitement you will probably see is a car chase and drawing on someone, not an actual shoot out. Thus I guess by this reasoning they feel being competent is enough vs being proficient.
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Nope. We already know. Please review the notes from the last meeting.
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Itâd be great to know these stats. Also public health stats wrt gun violence.
Too bad the NRA successfully lobbied to make that pretty much impossible.
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Good point. I think I mentioned it here before: The gun training of many police organisations in Germany is called ânot-shootingâ and covers not only gun usage but thinking before drawing the weapon - done with role playings of real-life situations and trying to give the LEOs calmness for the job. Far from perfect, but I like the approach.
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You should always have a shot of grappa on the side with your espresso. Cuts the jitters. Itâs like a speedball but socially acceptable.
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