You’re failing to account for one aspect of their objectives; to maintain deniability if it failed. A dozen operatives in tactical gear with flex cuffs, sidearms, and tasers would have been denied entry or even shot at some point among the layers of security in the Capitol. They needed the mob as cover to gain ingress to the Senate chamber. And they needed the mob as cover if it went pear-shaped.
ETA:
that’s not what you described. You have only touched on the mob as an unpredictable weapon. You have not factored in the team that went in with specific targets and objectives under the cover of the mob.
I see no one calling for panic.
I didn’t say anyone was calling for panic.
Each mob is a one-shot weapon.
Multiple mobs are multiple one-shot weapons.
There, I can concur; our species is terribly short sighted…
Edited for typos.
Not if they are being centrally managed. This is an insurrection. It is more accurate to say these individual events are enemy action, and respond appropriately. “Mob” and “riot” fails to acknowledge the danger this poses. “Ongoing insurrection” is more accurate,
yeah, i mean they believe they are the silent majority. ( wrong on both accounts, but whatever. ) they had a plan, but what they didn’t know was whether it would work. they didn’t know for sure.
they hoped ( or assumed ) they would have enough like minded people both in dc and in various states around the country to successfully take and hold the legislatures. ( and they didn’t. thank god. )
you don’t even have to kill people(*) when you can hold them hostage and threaten to kill them unless your guy is recognized as the duly elected dictator.
that was their plan. they didn’t have enough people to stop the certification, but they thought or hoped they did. and like others have said, they thought or hoped they’d be supported by military and police – because some of them are the police and military.
now they hope, even though they failed, it will serve to incite more people to violence come inauguration… when they will try all over again. probably with more guns and bombs this time since there are going to be troops between them and their targets.
(* though they were clearly willing to kill. )
They’re idiots in as much that they believed the lies and conspiracy theories hard enough to believe they were in the right and they would not face consequences for their participation in a clear coup attempt. Arrest and try them all for sedition and/or insurrection.
@codinghorror and @JonS: When the insurrectionists breached the building only to find it nearly devoid of their targets…it was only then that they appeared to have no aims or goals. The assholes with zip cuffs, alone, should hammer a stake into the heart of the claim that these were clueless rubes caught up in the heat of the moment.
@anon61221983: [quote=“Mindysan33, post:79, topic:188646”]
We’ll be dealing with these groups for years to come, in part because law enforcement at the Federal and state levels as well as many average Americans who are not direct victims of these groups have not taken this threat seriously at all for years and years now.
[/quote]
The exceedingly quick execution of the OKC bomber (not naming this notorious POS, since it is excellent practice to deny terrorists, even the long-dead terrorists, utterance of their names) always seemed like Federal LE was trying to sweep the white nationalist violence under the rug without sufficient investigation and before investigative journalists could dig too deep into the rot.
Now that you mention it, that was the first instance of White domestic terrorism that I can think of in my personal lifetime… and once the culprit was apprehended, it was over and done with in the media, in the blink of a fucking eye.
Yet when terrorists are the “usual, preferred” shade of Brown, the US media loves to drag out every minute detail as long as they fucking possibly can.
Interesting how that works out, huh?
When I say “there was no real plan” I mean “there was no real plan from the lectern that Trump and Rudy spoke from”. I’m sure they hoped that some of the people they addressed would cause plenty of chaos when left to their own devices…
At any rate, I agree with this:
On Sunday, the Capitol’s rolling green lawn was ringed by high black fencing and patrolled by personnel in green camouflage keeping the public at bay.
“This is the people’s house. Congress members have always prided themselves on having an open campus,” Sund said. But now, “I’m not sure that will continue to be defensible.”
The entire “lone wolf” stuff was a deliberate tactic cultivated by white supremacist groups. You get individuals to act on their own, you create enough plausible deniability to keep the leadership safe. ISIS did the same fucking thing, and the Feds were all over it. But right wing white supremacists have always been more of a threat on the domestic home front. Always.
That’s because they don’t count the random acts of violence engaged in by white power gangs on the regular as domestic terrorism.
Yes. There was. There has already been talk of communication, and we know they’ve been trying to strong arm state governments to over turn the election. That’s how this kind of action works with the far right - you hammer home the objective without stating it directly. But there also seems to have been coordination on the ground in real time.
Take this seriously.
If there was a tight disciplined group that was suppose to slide past (or passed through) the Capitol Police quickly, and catch Congress, especially Pence, all in one room, maybe the big dumb mob got in the way?
I recall an account where some part of the crowd started over to the Capitol early and pushed up against the Capitol Police. If the planned group got there after that, then the mess in the way would slow them down. Any hole opened for them would get clogged by the mob in front of them.
Speculation, but the execution of the plan could have failed because the big mob that was supposed to be cover (ablative meat armor) was too enthusiastic.
Liked for this!
I didn’t invent it.
if i understand correctly, they actually had just adjourned to their two separate chambers - senate and house.
according to the washington post timeline, trump’s speech telling people to go steal the vote ended at 1:10pm. two minutes later cruz and gosar objected to the existence of democratic voters in arizona, and so congress split up.
the “debate” was still going at 2:15ish when the facists broke in
presumably that’s coincidence since i don’t imagine they could have controlled the timing of the arizona vote
(edit)
to read trump’s tweets in the context of the timeline is sureal. as congress rushes to safety he tweets out
Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution… USA deserves the truth
followed ten minutes later by:
Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!
so, not only not telling them to go, but saying, go get the “truth”, you’re patriots.
Someone could probably make a good guess. Up to Arizona, the timing would be close to previous years.
If there was a plan, the Feds should check the records at companies like Zello on the 6th at the Capitol. (Everyone else has geo data.)
“You have to nip it in the bud immediately”
What happened last week was a result of not saying “out. now.” four+ years ago.
Useful philosophy. I like it.
That bartender for president!
Try 41 years ago. But yes.
Right, maybe four years ago was the “oh shit, this is a nazi bar now” moment.
