Originally published at: COVID-19 has caused fetal death rates to double in Mississippi | Boing Boing
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Goodness. It’d be a shame if somebody sued the Texas governor for his opposition to basic COVID precautions, since COVID is apparently the equivalent of medically induced abortion.
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Strange how this is happening in a state where the leadership is so very concerned about the unborn.
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Damn. This. Shit. To. Hell.
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Jesus fucking wept.
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I remember talking to someone who was pregnant and not wanting to get vaccinated because she didn’t know if it would affect her or her baby, especially while breast feeding.
In my experience, if a pregnant woman is worried about something harming their baby, it takes A LOT to get them to change their mind. That nagging doubt of their original position. A trusted doctor is probably your best bet.
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“COVID supports abortion” is a sign I’d like to see at a pro-life rally soon …
In all seriousness, one of the big endgames to a lot of this are some upcoming Supreme Court decisions on abortion and vaccine mandates.
Unfortunately for abortion rights activists, I suspect the Supreme Court will fall in line with almost every other public health decision and declare the government can absolutely control your body as a “compelling interest.”
I mean, for sure any conservative supporting a “vaccine mandate” will write the opinion in such a way where you can just substitute “banning abortion.”
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Maybe just for better context on that. My sister in law is an RN, works at a state hospital that is our county’s center for pandemic response. Was working in a COVID ward, and her own doctors are generally young and aggressively science forward. So pregnant, access to the vaccine before anyone else, and pretty direct access to just about the most solid information on the subject.
She was pregnant when the vaccines became available, and both her personal doctors and coworkers with the know how basically told here there wasn’t a good answer to give on impacts of vaccination during pregnancy. There simply wasn’t enough data collected at the time to give an answer, even info on risks of COVID infection during pregnancy was concerning but unclear. Which would be why this news here is news.
Basically the advice she was given was that it probably wasn’t a risk, but there was a definite possibility of problems. So it was her call. Apparently more data/studies were meant to come out in May to June of this year. Which is when the baby was due. So she help off until like 2 days after giving birth. And from what she tells me the advice has since shifted to “get the fucking vaccination”. Cause that data came out, and there were not a problem.
So some one making that decision earlier this year was very likely drawing from the advice of a trusted doctor. I don’t think there was ever any legit concern around breast feeding, and it all coincided with the problems with the AstraZeneca in young women on birth control coming to light. So that was probably what was driving the caution.
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And these are pretty late terms abortions! Maybe we should call it a partial birth covid death?
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The DIFFERENCE is that vaccines are not just about the individual. It’s about PUBLIC health.
My uterus is none of your god damn business or anyone else. Full stop.
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Unfortunately that is pretty much the state of medicine and pregnancy for far to many things.
On the topic of the post: I would be fascinated to dig through the article and data but really cannot bring myself to do it these days.
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Again, I can talk facts about what the anti-choice movement is, or I can try to get them to see me as a person with full rights. Since they do not believe women should be full citizens, but should be subject to the whims of men, it is pointless to try and come to some sort of middle ground with them. It is clear that their rhetoric is not based on any sort of logical world view in the first place. These are hardline authoritarians that we’re dealing with here, not someone with a reasoned and measured world view that just happens to disagree with mine. They want to install a white supremacist theocratic government, by violence if necessary.
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IIRC in this case it was a result of the normal ethics protocols around clinical trials combined with a fast moving target.
Early stage clinical trials, particular the earliest ones on safety and dosing, don’t tend to include pregnant women out of an abundance of caution. So there was a gap in publications and preliminary data there, expanded trials with enough pregnant women involved hadn’t gotten far enough to tell us anything. And there wasn’t enough data in the earlier trials to draw a conclusion.
When you tossed the early reports about AstraZeneca’s issues in, there was a plausible enough reason to wait and see.
There does seem to be an element of too few people looking when it comes to the lack of clarity around specific risks from infections. With a global pandemic raging there would be more than enough cases to look at and track, but from what the SIL was telling me they were (at the time) all smaller less definitive stuff.
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At least the fetuses don’t have to suffer through living in such a shithole state where the governor and legislature actively turns down medicaid money and numerous other benefits and support for children in order to try and kill them after they’ve left the womb.
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Woman I know whose baby was due around July or August* was told by her OB to get the vaccine back in April. Her OB was really adamant. Possibly bc the pregnancy was high risk.
*I don’t know the date bc the baby was born way early and I was not about to ask how early when the kid was born at 3 pounds and in the NICU for a month. A question she just did not need. Kid and mom doing fine tho
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Why assume they are ignorant of this?
Yes, everyone here knows the “other side” disagrees with the bodily autonomy of women whole-cloth. In that context telling people to “tread carefully” here and now sounds a bit like you are using the systemic oppression they are facing to shut them up in this forum and if that isn’t how you want to come across as “an ally” maybe that’s worth considering.
I could understand your response if some one had said “oh no they will never argue that” but they didn’t they said “fuck that noise” which is a perfectly cromulent response in a forum.
Lawyers hopefully will be coming up with better ones but IANAL and probably neither are you. If you are, well, good luck defending our rights in the courts then. We will need that more than anything else.
The real truth is that literally nothing women like me living in the state of Texas say online is going to matter in terms of defending our rights against our government which is overtly determined to restrict them at all costs really. Same will be true of other states as these continued attacks on women’s basic rights keep coming. The problem simply isn’t about our “tone” or the “quality of discourse” we offer others online.
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This is an eternal problem in parenting. You always have to make decisions based on partial information. You never get to know all the options, nor all the consequences. You do the best you can with the information you have, then re-evaluate and re-adjust, and then be gentle with yourself. My own advice on the vaccine has evolved from “I need to see the data before I go all in” to “get the fucking vaccine” when the data was released. That’s how science works.
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