Disneyland announces a date for removal of sex-slave trafficking scene from the Pirates of the Caribbean ride

[nungesser]

@anon89609066

I say that’s a problem.

You’re… comparing a theme park ride to the destruction of monuments to slavery?

To be totally clear: we’re talking about a kid’s ride. There’s no actual rape or sexual slavery going on among robot pirates. It’s a scene that played much differently in the social environment of the 60s when it was built than 2018, so it’s time for it to go – it’s not funny anymore. So they’re replacing it with an elaborate auction scene run by the Redhead, where she’s in charge and making wisecracks. What would you prefer Disney to do?

[anon89609066]

You’re actually standing up for a rape scene?

[nungesser]

@anon89609066

You’re actually standing up for a rape scene?

I literally just said that it’s good that they’re removing it because it’s in poor taste, and I’m glad they’re replacing it.

[anon30760835]

@nungesser

it’s not funny anymore.

it’s not that is isn’t funny, It’s that it was funny isn’t funny anymore

and yes, you rather are defending it. You going to say provocative things and then judge peoples reactions, bully for that!

[nungesser]

@anon30760835

it’s not that is isn’t funny, It’s that it was funny isn’t funny anymore

That’s a better way to put it. Like Cory, I didn’t even think about it as a kid. But when I realized as a teen that they were selling women for money and making jokes like “I be willin’ to share, I be!”, I thought wow, they had a weird idea of what was funny in the 60s – this is totally gross.

@anon30760835

and yes, you rather are defending it.

I’m really sorry if everyone somehow misinterpreted me saying that I’m glad they’re replacing it. What I was saying, which may have been the source of confusion, was that Disney’s been talking about replacing this scene with a non-rapey auction scene for awhile, and because they’re Disney, hasn’t been framing this as “hey everyone! We know that a Bride Auction is really gross! Sorry!” but as bringing something fresh to a classic attraction. But NO. I am not defending it. Thank you.

[GulliverFoyle]

@anon89609066

You’re actually standing up for a rape scene?

@Mindysan33

If people are getting their history of piracy from Disneyland, I’m not sure what to tell them!

I’d give them this link…

- YouTube

Or a copy of Under the Black Flag by David Cordingly.

And hope that they’d be hooked by the more interesting historical reality.

[anon89609066]

To me, there’s a bright line on this. If it is considered contemporary art, and not a classical work, then scenes that downplay, minimize, normalize, promote, condone, etc.:

slavery
sexism
rape
gratuitous violence
joy at others’ misery
extreme vice
the status of one class/racial group over another
etc.

…really have no place in our society. Not even for a laugh. Laughing at your own misery is one thing, but it’s fun to laugh at other people’s misery?

So when I heard, “Oh we will set a date sometime next month to deal with this…” and “oh we need to renovate the whole thing anyways.” [paraphrasing] …to me that reads like oppression lite.

YOU, probably are not defending it, @nungesser. I can tell that you are defending your position upthread, which I understand. I do it. You said something and someone took it sideways… But I am also standing by my assertion of “why wait?”

Why not throw a blanket on the damn scene, and a sign saying “Under renovations,” and when the little boats go by, people can see, oh, they took this scene out. They might think, “Hey, Disney is actually responding to people’s concerns.” Instead of, effectively, “We will deal with our institutional biases when it suits US, not you, fuck off plebes.”

So that’s why I have been so insistent. So what if it’s Disneyland and it’s for kids and all the rest… so what. It sucks and it should be gone… like 20 years ago. Or NOW. Not… next month. NOW. What’s the harm? No harm. Just take it down already.

[GulliverFoyle]

@anon30760835

and yes, you rather are defending it. You going to say provocative things and then judge peoples reactions, bully for that!

Not how I read @nungesser’s comment at all. It seemed so obvious that he wasn’t saying what @anon89609066 said he was saying that it seemed like @anon89609066 was just baiting him. But if you both thought he was defending it, then I guess the context that seemed apparent to me wasn’t so obvious after all. I will say, however, that even if it hadn’t been clear from context, I wouldn’t have assumed the worst from someone with @nungesser’s history; rather I’d have given him the benefit of the doubt. YMMV.

[GulliverFoyle]

@anon89609066

Why not throw a blanket on the damn scene, and a sign saying “Under renovations,” and when the little boats go by, people can see, oh, they took this scene out. They might think, “oh Disney is actually responding to people’s concerns.” Instead of, effectively, “We will deal with our institutional biases when it suits US, not you, fuck off plebes.”

I don’t necessarily disagree, but Disney isn’t removing the sex trafficking scene because it’s right. They’re doing it because they’ve gauged enough of their audience finds it offensive. If and when Disney believes enough people are offended by the other aspects of the scene, that’s when they’ll change those parts. What seems self-evident to you and I isn’t necessarily shared by a majority of the people in those little boats.

I’m not saying don’t not be angry about it. Just realize that Disney isn’t in the ethics business, they’re in the PR business like every other corporation. The reason it’s important to remember that is that when a company does the right thing, we shouldn’t be deceived as to their real motives.

[anon89609066]

@GulliverFoyle

Disney isn’t removing the sex trafficking scene because it’s right.

That’s my point. They are obviously not. If they were doing it because of a moral reason, it would have been done already, maybe like I described, with curtains and an “under renovation” sign on that small area. (It’s a small area, after all.) But with future dates and all these “reasons” it’s pretty clear they don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s a scene depicting something repugnant.

It’s like how lots of places at first responded about all the confederate soldier statues. Many were in complete resistance. But a few were like, “Well, we need to redo the front lawn area anyways.” To me, that’s the same thing as here. No remorse. No recognition of a wrong that needs to be righted. No acknowledgment of bad past practices, or an update to generally held morality.

Reminds me of this character:

[GulliverFoyle]

@anon89609066

But with future dates and all these “reasons” it’s pretty clear they don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s a scene depicting something repugnant.

Exactly. I mean, individuals who work at Disney might care, but a publicly traded company only cares about their bottom line.

[pelicancounselor]

[jerwin]

[Biggles]

Heh. When they first reworked the ride some years ago, I was surprised and amused (at the perversity of human nature) that they would draw a line between rape and sex slavery - one needing the replacement, the other being left alone.

[mewyn]

They can’t just remove the scene, something needs to replace it. Also removing a scene in a highly intricate ride setup like Pirates isn’t a one-night thing. It takes weeks to properly remove the figures and mechanics. Weeks again to install new ones. They also have to schedule refurbs like this for one of the most popular rides they have, otherwise the public facing employees will get so much undue crap from entitled assholes complaining about how their favorite ride is closed.

It is LONG overdue to remove this horrible bullshit scene, but it’s definitely not like toppling a statue.

[Wanderfound]

@Brainspore

When I first watched Swiss Family Robinson as a kid I was unclear on why the captain’s daughter Roberta was disguised as a boy before being taken captive by the pirates. Childhood innocence can be a helluva thing.

In retrospect I suspect that being disguised as a boy probably wouldn’t have provided much protection against gang rape by pirates either.

QI | What Are The Rules On A Pirate Ship?

[gewurz]

Exactly my point. The new revision borders on hypocrisy. Either you decide that pirates are fun no-matter-what, sex trade, rapings, killings and everything, or you decide that they were, you know, criminals. But calling them pirates and showing them as good-humored, life-loving people is a strangish thing to do.

[FGD135]

@nungesser

You’re… comparing a theme park ride to the destruction of monuments to slavery?

Well, given that the theme park ride depicts slavery in a “fun” way, I’d say, fair point.

BTW, you can compare anything and everyone with anything and everyone at will. Granted, some comparisons are downright silly, but one point of comparisons is to shine a light on differences.

[anon89609066]

It takes weeks to put up a construction screen? LOL

[nungesser]

@gewurz

Either you decide that pirates are fun no-matter-what, sex trade, rapings, killings and everything, or you decide that they were, you know, criminals. But calling them pirates and showing them as good-humored, life-loving people is a strangish thing to do.

The history of the ride is actually a bit interesting. Essentially, they’d just done their first Animatronic figure to huge acclaim (Abe Lincoln) and Walt & co. had been trying to come up with attraction ideas for their proposed park that would be “dangerous-feeling” enough to appeal to kids without being the kind of horribly unsafe thrill rides that most carnivals had back then. So he proposed a pirate wax museum you could walk through (along with a haunted house & other dark rides). But suddenly they could make robot figures that looked & moved more or less like real people, and it evolved into a boat ride to keep guests moving. I’ve always loved it because it sort of gleefully shows pirates being awful, looting a town, getting drunk, and torturing people (in a mild, g-rated way), for really no other reason than to show pirates having fun being nasty… and then getting punished for it. But a scene of them selling women and discussing sharing them is well past its time of being acceptable, and I’m glad it’s being changed for the better.