Donald Trump will not condemn the terrorist attacks on anti-Nazi protestors

Fair point.

Right. I can still get a Big Mac on Labor day. But if we did make it a big to do, where most people were off, it would 1) facilitate more people voting, and 2) prompt even the McDonalds and Walmart to alter their schedules to let people vote.

And I still contend the bigger issue is apathy. I don’t think we don’t have nearly half the people not voting because they can’t.

Well shit, I need to watch more local news. At first I thought these things were ok, until I found out 1) voter fraud is nearly non existent, and 2) some areas make it hella hard if you need one of these cards. 3) Its extra tax money spent to combat a non existent issue.

The way it was done when I worked the polls was you needed some sort of ID, whether that bet your Voter ID card or your license. I THINK one would accept something like your utility bill even, with the address etc on it. All of this was marked off in the book and signed. So no one from the same address could possibly vote twice. This system worked really well.

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No harm, no foul.

Believe me, I understand the frustration.

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No other federal holiday has done 2. I mean shit look at black Friday. Retail workers increasingly have to work on thanksgiving.

And the places that already do the holiday thing it hasn’t worked. Precisely because the people who most need that time to get to the poll, are the least likely to actually get that holiday off. There’s a very small uptick. And there’s no reason not to do it. But there are just as simple ways to get a much higher increase in turn out.

It’s a thing that sounds very nice. And frankly I agree with you it’s a decent idea it just doesn’t have the effect many people expect.

I’d also suggest you read up on voter ID. It’s intensely anti democratic. Particularly good example is the recent court case over such a law in (I think) North Carolina. They quite literally commissioned studies on which forms of I’d blacks had access to and then excluded those from elligiblity. Once the law is passed and ids listed. There are efforts to close as many of the offices where they can be acquired (only in minority/dnc areas mind). Restrict their hours and pile fees on associated documents and processes to increase the expense. In some states it can apparently cost $1k+ to get the right id if you don’t already have it. And it takes long enough that once you find out you have a problem. You’re missing an election or two before you can square it away.

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Again - not perfect, but would still be better. Also moving it to a Sunday or Saturday would mean most people were already off.

But how do we combat voter apathy and ignorance? Everyone I know who didn’t vote did so because they didn’t want to. George Carlin used to have a bit about it, saying it was pointless.

No, I agree with that. I have read and watch several things showing the BS one has to go through in some areas.

I haven’t read that, which state?

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Donny - would you like a story from the Presidents little golden book of flow charts?

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IIRC, George was the guy who said if voting actually made a difference, it’d be illegal.

(I still vote anyway; fuck the dumb, my ancestors fought, bled and died for the right.)

Also, this gif is obligatory due to some of the egregious condescension going on this thread:

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George Carlin was a brilliant comedian but short on actual, workable solutions for improving society. (Not that I really hold that against him, it’s not really in the job description.)

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I loved George Carlin, but I completely agree; he had no viable solutions to all the multitudinous problems we face… just like most of the rest of us don’t.

It’s just that when GC bitched and complained about the status quo of endless fuckery, at least he was funny with it.

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Yes he did!

I too can’t understand why people wouldn’t vote. Though I get that many people dislike their choices and feel in most cases that either one won’t change things much. At the very least, write someone worthy in. But that is the flip side to the coin - some people aren’t voting because they don’t feel compelled to.

I have a feeling… that might change next time, but maybe not.

No, he was quick on wit, long on angst, short on solutions. Well… he had some impractical ones. Like roping off the rectangular states and putting the undesirables there.

I still appreciate his observations, but try not to let his bitterness bleed over. I think he had that problem of being aware of how fucked he was, but couldn’t see how to really change that in a meaningful way. So he decided to make people laugh.

I just rewatched Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure with him in it. I got to seem him live once, actually.

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In Canada, employers must give you time off to vote. Between that and advance polling stations with way shorter lines, that offers a lot of opportunity to vote.

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A must read! Good job Cory!

Also known as that time Trump called BoingBoing “fake news”.

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I’m in Washington. Vote by mail is the only civilized way to do it. I get my ballot 3 weeks before each election. I don’t have to remember, it just arrives.
Then I can sit at my desk and research each position and candidate. I don’t have to remember who and what I’m planning to vote for. Name recognition is less of a problem. You have 3 weeks to do it, then send it back.
If there’s any way to make it easy, this is it. No holidays, because someone always has to be working. I was out of town last election. No big deal, I sent my ballot in just like normal. Everyone who is going to have any time to vote will have it in the three weeks.

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[profanity laden rant ahead…just warning you guys]

The upside to this is I can’t possibly consider him a lower weaselly piece of shit on general principle. So his latest act of feckless racist enabling bullshit can’t possibly surprise me or make me feel any less of him.

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Would be incredible if the USA has a civil war while engaging a world war… The ego of POTUS not withstanding.

I can not remember. But I do remember that that was full cost. Tracking down backing documents, And fees to have them printed/corrected to match name changes. Fees to travel long distance to get to a seldom open office that’s the only accessible place that issues ids etc. It’s illegal/unconsititutional to only accept ids that cost money. As that’s too obviously a poll tax. So common practice is to make the free id very difficult to get and load up fees and costs on the things neccisary to get one.

Ignorance is likely less of a problem than people think. Even the informed and educated are subject to confirmation bias and misinformation. That’s why the “rubes and hillbillies” argument is so dumb.
You hardly have to be uneducated and rural to buy into a hopelessly unrealistic interpretation of things. So less of an “ignorance” problem than an ideological bias problem. Different but perhaps more concerning.

As for apathy. There a lot of research indicating that voter apathy is directly proportional to non competitive, undemocratic elections. One of the side effects of general electoral reform. Fair congressional districts. And all those well established ways of allowing for more turnout and easier voting. Is they tend to make things more open and competitive. Which drive turn out even more.

@hmclachlan

I have absolutely no clue what your on about. You may want to re-read the discussion. Where you might find I was pushing back on other people who were dismissive of “rubes and hillbillies”.

However important federal holidays were in whatever magic better days you’re thinking of. The fact remains that today. Despite all the social pressures you point to. Which are there and ratcheting up. Many, many businesses do not close. Many, many people are not lucky enough to have days off, holidays off, sick time. Holiday pay, overtime, or vacation paid or otherwise. Or other privledges we typically think of as normal or basic labor rights.

These people are often from the very same groups that are badly in need of better access to the polls. The same groups being deliberately disenfranchised. The young, The poor, The female, The non-white. The urban.

I myself went nearly 5 years without a federal holiday off. Though I was “lucky” enough to be seasonally unemployed in a state with plenty of polling places during the previous few elections. And this November election day happened to fall on one of my scant days off. I’ve just enjoyed my first Memorial Day and Forth of July not working with no additional pay in a very long time.

I’m not sure what “standard” you think I’m applying. Nor who you think it may or may not apply to. Not everyone is well enough off to take advantage of federal holidays, and that has always been the case. You won’t help people get to the polls by offering a benefit they have no hope of taking advantage of. Which is why it hasn’t worked where it’s been tried. It’s nice in addition to other policies. It doesn’t do much on its own.

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I admit, I assumed that was a thing that all states would encourage, especially the US where it’s a fixed date.

Federal law does not require that employers allow their workers time off to vote, but the majority of states have at least some level of protection for employees who want to leave work to engage in their civic duty. The specifics vary by state, but in each state, the rules apply to almost every type of workplace.

That’s like finding yourself in an alternate universe where mailboxes are blue and Spock didn’t have a beard.

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Um, a large part of this thread has been about exactly that. When trying to vote is a major embuggerance AND authority figures are actively making it harder and more expensive to vote AND you feel like your vote is worthless AND people in authority are working to ensure your vote is actually worthless … is it really that hard to understand why people don’t vote? At some point voting at all just becomes an act of bloody-mindedness, rather than active participation in the democratic process.

(I do vote, BTW and FWIW. Then again, where I am polling stations are super numerous, and voting is held on Saturday.)

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