Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2019/06/06/elizabeth-warren-wants-congres.html
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I would love to be rid of Trump. But I just don’t see the point of impeaching him in the house just so that he can be acquited in the Senate. It seems to me that is just “virtue signaling” and a waste of time.
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I really have a hard time understanding the logic behind this. The U.S. government is currently screwed up and elected officials should stop trying to fight that?
Can’t win so don’t try as a personal excuse is one thing, but advocating for the majority of your federal legislators to take it on as a governing policy is mind-blowing to me.
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It’s a no win situation with Mitch McConnell blocking any sort of outcome detrimental to himself or trump. trump will be acquitted in the senate.
Unless rock solid evidence of a crime is presented to the public. Several ongoing investigations still to go…
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Having any body of government publicly acknowledge that Trump has done things unbefitting of his office is, in and of itself, a good thing. Also, you might not want to use the term “virtue signaling” if you want people to take what you say seriously.
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Do your damn job Congress.
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Well, there’s also the “doing their bloody job as part of a branch of government” bit. That the Senate will fail at doing their job is no reason for the House not to do theirs.
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The “virtue” being the House doing its fucking job.
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In the absence of that virtue signaling, Republicans are doing a pretty good job signaling that the US government is a virtue-free zone.
Narrative matters in a democracy, and even if there’s no narrative that ends with Turmp being kicked out, there is more than one possible narrative about how he avoided it. It makes a difference whether the historical record says “Turmp did nothing wrong” or “Turmp was allowed to get away with a bunch of crimes in a farcical show trial that led directly to the demise of the megatraitor McConnell, which we now commemorate every year on Turtle-Smashing Day”
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It doesn’t have to get to that. Just start the process. Dig up the dirt, start airing the laundry. Bring up the levels of malfeasance to the public till Turtle McConnell and the rest of the Republican Senate has no choice but to impeach or look for a new job.
ETA the public and Senate was not all about impeaching Nixon but once the hearings and evidence came out and it became clear that the tide was changing Nixon wised up got the fuck out of Dodge before it got worse.
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I mean sure, let’s keep up the investigations on the off-chance that they uncover a smoking gun that will persuade the Senate to do something other than absolve him. But instead of piling up sandbags at the low-tide line, I think that most of the efforts should be aimed at exposing the awfulness of this administrations policies rather than how awful Trump is as a person. After all, he was elected DESPITE what a manifestly awful person he is. “He’s a terrible person and you only voted for him because the Russians persuaded you to.” is NOT going to get people to vote against him in 2020. “Look at the terrible things he has done to YOU,” just might.
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Both can happen, often simultaneously given his nature.
Not by the popular vote. An impeachment isn’t for the benefit of a handful of Electors operating under a broken system but for the people of the U.S., most of whom did not cast their votes for this garbage person.
That’s not what the impeachment is saying. The message is “he’s a terrible American official because he accepted help from the Russians.”
Now the Know-Nothing 27% isn’t going to believe that, but the other ~22% of citizens who voted for him might, and enough of them might also find it offensive enough to change their vote or stay home in 2020.
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And how does the popular vote matter? “If only we lived in a more democratic country, he would not be president.” doesn’t change ANYTHING. Moral victory is just a kind of defeat.
And what is the possible benefit to those people if he is impeached, but stays in office after the brief trial in the Senate? Because that will be much more easily sold as exoneration thant the Mueller report. Baring some FAR more damning revelations, impeaching him does not mean that we will be rid of him, it means that he will be found innocent in a senate trial. And IMHO that is an end state WORSE than if he wasn’t impeached.
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The goal is to remove the current administration. Impeaching Trump will not do that.
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See my comment about Electors vs. voters.
See my comment about changing some voters’ minds in 2020. It’s not like McConnell’s party-before-country corruption isn’t known to most voters, including his own. The point is to make Il Douche’s corruption the main domestic political news story of 2020.
And again, it’s their job to start impeachment proceedings when presented with a report like this. Mueller himself told them that as clearly as he could (which, granted, is not clear to anyone who isn’t a lawyer).
It can help achieve that goal in 2020, but yes, impeachment alone can’t do it given the GOP Senate majority.
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The same reason a police officer has a duty to arrest someone they witness committing a serious crime even if they know the perpetrator is so rich and well-connected that they will likely beat the charges in court.
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Option 1: Impeachment
If the impeachment is successful then squeaky-clean Mike Pence gets to run and I think he’d probably win. If it’s not successful, Trump emerges as the victor and gets to run, and I think he’ll probably win.
Option 2: No Impeachment
Trump gets to run as the guy who wasn’t impeached and use that as an argument for his innocence/witch hunt (see “no collusion”) and I think he’ll probably win.
Yep, looks like a lose-lose to me. But I also think it’s a moral imperative, if Congress does have evidence of a crime. And not impeaching in that case threatens the very fabric of our democracy.
I’m not settled on this yet, so I find this debate interesting. What I do know is that it’s about fucking time that someone leaked the whole damn Mueller Report. I can’t believe it hasn’t happened yet.
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There are multiple worthwhile goals at play here. One such goal is to affirm the ideal that the President of the United States is not above the law and that congress has the power and the duty to hold him accountable for his actions.
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But I just don’t see the point of impeaching him in the house just so that he can be acquited in the Senate.
You don’t have a crystal ball. Nixon won in 1972 with 49 states and had a high approval rating when impeachment proceedings started.
The goal of impeachment isn’t just removal. Even if he isn’t convicted, impeachment will likely curtail Trump’s continued power grabs and attempts to dangle pardons for silence with Stone and Flynn. It would make it far more difficult for him to continue to exchange political favors for monetary gain. It would stem the tide of brazen erosion of separation of powers and norms.
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