FBI investigating Trump campaign's Russia links, says no info supports Trump's wiretapping claims


#22

It’s easy to believe a 3-letter Washington spy agency if they say what one wants to hear, and to disbelieve them otherwise. They have essentially zero credibility, because of their long history of misrepresention and their demonstrated ability to fabricate evidence. It’s sad, really.


#23

Just like this WH administration!


#24

…to influence elections.

(11.01.16) RUBIO: “Obviously, we all understand the importance of this presidential race. I would just ask everybody this: Can this country afford to have a president under investigation by the FBI? Think of the trauma that would do to this country.” M. Rubio


#25

Everything in life requires judgement. In looking at differing stories from Trump and anyone - and when the anyone’s story is unfavorable to Donny - the other guy gets my vote.


#26

FBI: We didn’t do that, but now that you mention it, that way, it really is a good idea.


#27

#28

Given his 6 hours/day… I don’t see how he could miss it.


#29

I represent the Washington Truth Forum, a counter-intelligence think-tank sponsored by The They Institute, we may have a place for you here. :wink:


#31

#32

I don’t trust the FBI, but also can’t assume they’re going to lie to cover up or railroad.

Between the two, a railroad seems more probable. Trump was recently so obtuse that he blamed the FBI and Comey of illegally spying for Obama, and repeatedly doubled down on it, which probably has Comey in a very, very unfriendly mood, so the FBI might railroad the Trump admin into some convictions with faked evidence, but Comey’s well aware of the risks of playing the kind of game that could get him charged with enough felonies he’d never leave Club Fed., since this is such a high profile case that it will certainly be going into the history books if Comey does nail him and carefully scrutinized for a very long time that’s a really, really risky thing to do.

There’s a whole lot of data and evidence outside the FBI that can be used for some basic parity checks on the accuracy of the FBI’s reports and justifiability of actions. And thanks to the speeches questions of various Dem Reps. a ton of it will be in the Congressional Record.

There’s some independent verification possible, the stakes are as high as they’re ever going to get for the FBI to fabricate evidence to railroad a conviction. Maybe there’s an unknown motive to somehow dismiss the sea of issues with Manafort, Flynn, Stone, and Page’s really unbelievably damning behaviors as coincidences that can be credibly explained.

So I wouldn’t stop at just saying “don’t trust the FBI,” but consider what the stakes and risks are for them to play those games (which are much easier to get away with on lower profile cases), and how likely the actors would be to play them based on motive.


#33

Below is an interesting article as to how to “read” Comey. Basically the more loquacious he is, the less likely there is much to the Russia links and he will not be trying to protect any kind of important ongoing investigation. If he is tight lipped it means there is something substantial there and he does not want to impede FBI efforts.


#34

“I have no information that supports those tweets.” FBI. Jesus. THAT has to be said?
Government by daily senile Twitter Tantrum, fed by paranoid news sources, from INSIDE the President’s advisers? We’re so screwed. To those of you who just wanted to “shake up the system”, fuck you in every possible way.


#35

The more I try to make any sense of it all…the more I am convinced that this is what it truly was all about: shake things up.

Which is scary as hell, because they have no real clue how messed up things are going to get.


#36

That’s exactly the problem; you can’t tell what they are up to. Given their history, they might be pure as the driven snow, or engaged in a vast shadowy plot. And it’s even worse when you’re talking about the TSA, CIA or NSA, because it’s actually part of their job to make sure nobody knows what they are up to.

Thoroughly agree! In the absence of strong evidence from elsewhere, it’s a good idea to try to divine the motives and agendas of the players. The exercise might not lead anywhere conclusively, but at least it’s a solid attempt to combat confirmation bias.


#37

It’s not just a matter of taking the FBI’s word for it—NO ONE has been able to produce evidence that Obama wiretapped Trump. If Trump had any such evidence then he could just share it himself. He needn’t even seek the FBI’s permission to do so; he’s the only person in the country with the authority to declassify any intel he wants.


#38

Great video clip from this hearing.


#39

Trying to figure out if it’s ironic that the FBI is being asked if the FBI engaged in “McCarthyism.”


#40

Wait a minute there - if Trump was colluding with Russia to win the election, then Pence does not get a pass here. Even if Pence was not colluding, results of the election are NULL at that point. Pence is out too.


#41

There’s a lot in the bits and pieces of evidence we have, even if there’s no slam dunk evidence, but only arguments from probability. The FBI has a lot of evidence they aren’t going to share until the investigations are over.

The dossier on trump the ex-mi6 agent made (which is certainly full of a mix of reliable and unreliable sources since it was a raw release that wasn’t vetted) is kind of mind boggling. External validation of some sources and reports are validating more and more as reliable. There were a few of reports in the dossier created around Jun that were predicting things like Carter Page getting a payoff with a 19% of Rosneft’s value, provided the Trump admin would work to drop sanctions, and criticize NATO allies for not paying their fair share, and a few other things, where later a sale of that 19% value was made, and Trump began parroting that language after that predicted sale. It’s all circumstantial, but the coincidence is so epically unlikely, and the Feds could get/may have much more solid evidence on what was going on with the communications, sale, and details on what was going on during Page’s repeat visits to Russia. Russian agents tied to the dossier are mysteriously dying in Russia, which also adds to the sense that it’s not all some elaborate 4chan fiction, though it’ll take actual investigator to get solid evidence rather than what now might be an incredibly unlikely coincidence.

From what bits and pieces we have, everything points to Manafort seeing some trouble since he was on the Kremlin’s payroll (for which there’s solid evidence) and worked to change the GOP’s platform on Ukraine as Trump’s campaign manager. Carter Page (who was visiting Russia, and quoted as belligerently criticizing liberal democracies while praising Putin, and who’s tied up in the dossier) being toast, and Flynn hopefully suffering more due to his attempts to cover up many connections/contacts with Russia, Turkey, et al. There’s even a chance that Stone’s reported repeated (and badly covered up) direct communications with a Russian intelligence front, combined with repeatedly predicting future document dumps by Russia look like there’s probably enough for him to be in some trouble.

Hard to say what’ll happen, but there’s data out there besides the reports of intelligence agencies, just as there’s a lot of data tying the DNC/Podesta hacks to APT28/GRU besides the claims by intelligence agencies.


#42

“Oh my!”