Would you say they actually moved the established parties in their direction? For example, did the Democrats adopt Populist policies before the latter became an actual wing of the Democrats?
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From what I remember of my late 19th/early 20th century US history - I’d argue yes. Both the emergence of the Republicans and the Populist had a measurable effect on national politics and in the case of the populists, shifted the democrats into a new direction (the GOP just replaced the whigs, who just evaporated over the politics of slavery and labor). Now, that was well over a century ago, and the parties now are deeply entrenched and moving them is a much tougher affair now than back then, for a number of reasons.
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As hard as it is to believe, this was before my time, so I will cede to your expertise. In my lifetime 3rd part runs have always been at best counterproductive. If the Sanders supporters and the Greens want to have some real influence, they should do what the Tea Partiers did so successfully to the GOP, be a movement within the Democratic party and change it from the inside.
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If the UK Labour party is anything to go by, the neo-liberal wing would rather lose elections than have any change in policy. Expect a lot of failure from internal sabotage in the early years.
(If it is not obvious, I have argued in favour of doing this before. Just recognize that it will be a hard job)
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[quote=“anon73430903, post:2868, topic:67518”]
If the UK Labour party is anything to go by, the neo-liberal wing would rather lose elections than have any change in policy.[/quote]
The Corbyn wing seems to have solidified their control over the party. Yet to be seen is whether they can parley that into any kind win in the next General, assuming the UK still exists.
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Labour are a tremendous mess. They’re hopelessly split over Brexit, because UKIP will take all their Brexit supporting voters if they try to block leaving the EU, but if they don’t, the LibDems will eat their lunch instead.
I would never vote for the Labour party as it is right now. I’d have to vote LD if there was a snap election. But there wont be. Maybe after Brexit has happened and the country is buggered.
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Well, technically, mine too - I’m not THAT old! 
Just what I remember from my 19th century history.
I agree that third parties can’t get much done now a days, though. As you note, the tea party has had more influence, but part of that is the overton window stuff.
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Yeah, that’s when I took History too. Mr. Fliebus, 3rd period.
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This is a strange definition of success. Certainly the founder of the Tea Party, and all the people I interact with who were early Tea Party supporters, would call their efforts a tremendous failure! They did not change the GOP as they’d intended, and instead led to Trump winning the presidency.
But if you mean people can disembowel a political party and totally lose control of the process during the infighting and end up gnawing on each others’ bones, then yes the Tea Party was a great success. One that I suppose Berners could emulate to wreak equally uncontrolled destruction on the Democratic party. I honestly have no idea whether that would be a good or bad thing for posterity.
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The GOP has been pandering to the Tea Party for years, the TP is the reason Palin was the party VP nominee, the TP got several candidates elected to Congress and the Senate, the TP superpac endorsed Trump early, and finally the TP rallied behind Trump. If your friends are still unhappy then maybe they should be reconsidering whether the TP was the place to achieve their goals.
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The Koch Brothers? Ron Paul?
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I don’t have any friends in the Tea Party. Plenty of coworkers, neighbors, and acquaintances, all of whom I treat with civility and polite respect because that’s how I roll, but no friends.
But again, if you are recommending that people work from inside the Democratic Party to destroy it, the Tea Party is a good model. I just don’t know if releasing uncontrollable chaos is the only remaining strategy for party reform, or not.
You and I are far too old to see any truly meaningful change occur in the Democratic Party, frankly, but I have young friends who are working their way up the ladder the conventional way, and I would guess from what little I know of you that you do too.
Ron Paul almost accidentally created the Tea Party during one of his “money bomb” events, but soon distanced himself from it. Then there was a period where every ambitious bastard in the GOP tried to become the Tea Party leader, which led to the hilarious moment of a guy named Dick Armey trying to assume command of a… dick army, and failing, and then the Kochs and others started astro-turfing the hell out of it without worrying about command and control… of which it has none, to this day. Every teabagger is a lone wolf.
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The Tea Party became an astroturf project well in its infancy.
The GOP is still run by the elites for the elites, but your average Republican isn’t unhappy with Trump.
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Completely agree with that, and don’t see it as contradictory to what I said. The GOP did (does?) not serve the average Republican, and the Tea Party is just a band sticker over chaos now, and Trump usurped the party leadership in the dustup.
Which Republican “values” does it not appeal to?
Trump just wants to enrich himself and play dolls and have his rings kissed.
He’s not at odds with the party.
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I guess it’s in keeping with the title of the thread that now you’re driving trollies me. Good night, find someone else’s day to mess with.
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[quote=“Medievalist, post:2876, topic:67518”]
But again, if you are recommending that people work from inside the Democratic Party to destroy it, the Tea Party is a good model. I just don’t know if releasing uncontrollable chaos is the only remaining strategy for party reform, or not.[/quote]
Obviously I don’t want to see the party destroyed. However, back during Carter’s second run his fighting with Kennedy arguably had the same kind of effect on the 1980 election that the Sanders-Clinton supporter bickering had on the election this year. When Reagan won, Democratic party conservatives saw their chance: the left (Kennedy) and moderate (Carter) wings of the party were still at odds, so the DLC worked from within to capture power within the party, and they held it for decades. For an old lefty like me, that was a swing not dissimilar to the swing the GOP has undergone, certainly since the growth of the TP but to be honest since Reagan. Trump is merely the reductio ad absurdum of the “Reagan revolution”.
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Of course, I meant the classes I took ON 19th century history… And books I’ve read. Etc.
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And here I was thinking you were over 100 years old.
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Apparently I have MRSA, so they sent me home until I’m clear. I kept asking, but they haven’t agreed to change my medication yet and I’ll have to wait until I return before starting. It will probably take weeks before I feel positive or negative effects and know whether it’s a good fit, so this really adds more timethat I didn’t want to spend. There’s also the fact that I wanted to be away over Christmas because the kids wouldn’t need to be taken to school every morning.
ETA: I managed to get an appointment this week to discuss medication, so I may not have lost too much time. It takes a while to build up the dosage too, so it may even be a good thing that I’m banished for a few weeks (since I’ll have to stay until I’m at full dosage anyway).
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