Game of Thrones heads for uncertain destinations

[phuzz]

@PrestonSturges

@Flowerian

Jorah Mormon?

Mormont

Marmot.

Marmot

[sdmikev]

@ubastard

As a non-satellite or cable user, I’m finding it increasingly difficult to dodge spoilers from people who have already seen- via fair means or foul- any of series 5. Yes, I still use physical media; not everyone is enamoured of watching TV on a computer monitor, or has the inclination to spend money on net-enabled devices just to keep up with the virtual Joneses. Today I cancelled Netflix half way through the free trial ( via BT ), because it did not have anything I wanted to see beyond Daredevil and Breaking Bad- neither of which interest my other half.

Probably best to not click on recaps, then.
Having a Google Chrome stick or Apple TV or whatever isn’t anymore keeping up with the Jones’ than just having a TV…

[soterios]

I think this has to do more with the show’s handling of the books plot than anything else. They’re trying to fit over a book’s worth of progress into 10 episodes, and it’s places like this where the strain shows.

[jjsaul]

Given that in GRRM’s epic characters do actually change, instead of just move along a situational arc, Jorah may really get over the sexual crush on Dany and just become loyal to her as a leader. Look at how Jamie has changed. I couldn’t have imagined his transformation when he shoved Bran out the window.

Unfortunately, in the books Jorah is much more skeevey than even in the show. Not only is he crushing on a child in the books, when he runs into Tyrion at a brothel he has actually hired a prostitute to cosplay Dany, instead of just quiver-lipped watching one across the room.

As happened with Bronn and Osha, the acting of Iain Glen has made Jorah so much more interesting a character than the character in the books.

[AmiAthena]

@jjsaul

Look at how Jamie has changed. I couldn’t have imagined his transformation when he shoved Bran out the window.

I occasionally have to remind myself that that happened. He’s become so likable that it’s easy to forget how awful he was when we met him.

[halloween_jack_]

OK, let’s break things down:

• First, the Vale isn’t all that, really; it’s fertile, and very defensible, but Baelish’s guardianship of Robert Arryn is very fragile and constantly subject to challenge by the Lords Declarant. Petyr could probably maintain it if he wanted to hole up there indefinitely, but if he had that little ambition, he could have stayed on the Fingers.
• The thing with Sansa in Winterfell will probably go one of two ways: either Sansa will break the hold of the Boltons on Winterfell and the North and people will remember that it was Baelish who brought her there to avenge her family, or she will be martyred and Baelish will stir up the lords of the north against the Boltons–you’ll remember Roose cautioning Ramsey against using excessively cruel and harsh methods against them, and the North remembers. (The third possibility–that Ramsay will break Sansa as he broke Theon–is unlikely just because that’s not how Sansa’s being set up. She’s already played some of that out with Joffrey in King’s Landing and is not likely to let it happen to her again.)
• Does Stannis know that Baelish brokered the deal between the Lannisters and Tyrells? And even if he does, would he let it slide if Baelish brought the Tyrells over to his side? Stannis might believe that the person most responsible for bringing the Tyrells into the Lannisters’ camp is Loras, in revenge for Renly’s assassination–yes, Loras is a lightweight, but also very popular in the Reach and elsewhere. Loras now seems to be out of the picture, the Tyrells may be alienated from the Lannisters because of Loras’ arrest and Cersei’s vendetta against Margaery, and Stannis may be willing to issue a royal pardon for the Tyrells’ moving against him at King’s Landing in return for their fealty.
• And finally, Baelish may be going to King’s Landing to finish off the Lannisters’ control of the crown by overseeing the centerpiece of his scheming: the destruction of Cersei by the High Sparrow, via the Walk of Shame. Yes, Baelish is behind the High Sparrow’s ascendance to the papacy of the Seven. He did it by first taking part in the plot against Joffrey, thereby gaining the allegiance of the Tyrells; then using Margaery to meet with the High Sparrow, setting up his ascendancy, and also ensuring that even though Loras is arrested by the Faith Militant, he won’t actually be harmed (remember that Margaery is very popular with the people that the Sparrows serve, and would have many opportunities to bump into him while she’s ministering to the poor); setting up the previous High Septon for his fall by leaking information about his whoring to the Faith Militant; and eventually, of course, setting up Cersei for her own downfall. (Baelish may mourn the loss, or at least the temporary shutdown, of his brothels, but he doesn’t seem consumed with much affection toward the prostitutes themselves, and I doubt he left his money there.)

So, what’s the endgame? Baelish can deliver to Stannis the North, the Vale, the Reach, and the Riverlands (assuming that he breaks the Freys, which seems likely once the Boltons are gone) since Sansa would have title to the Tullys’ claim through her mother. Stannis already has a claim to the Stormlands, and he may negotiate Tommen’s abdication to return to Casterly Rock and rule the Westerlands, since the Lannisters’ gold has run out anyway. Dorne is Dorne, and the Iron Islands don’t seem that powerful in show-Westeros. That only leaves the small matter of whether or not Daenerys will ever ride her dragons west across the Narrow Sea, and for all we know Petyr is arranging for Jorah to get his wife back in exchange for one more betrayal.

I think he could do it.

[KarlS]

@halloween_jack_

The thing with Sansa in Winterfell will probably go one of two ways: either Sansa will break the hold of the Boltons on Winterfell and the North and people will remember that it was Baelish who brought her there to avenge her family, or she will be martyred and Baelish will stir up the lords of the north against the Boltons–you’ll remember Roose cautioning Ramsey against using excessively cruel and harsh methods against them, and the North remembers. (The third possibility–that Ramsay will break Sansa as he broke Theon–is unlikely just because that’s not how Sansa’s being set up. She’s already played some of that out with Joffrey in King’s Landing and is not likely to let it happen to her again.)

Actually I think it may play out more or less the same way it did in the books, except with Sansa instead of Jeyne and possibly with less rape.

[SamSam]

@HorstMohammed

Maybe it’s just me, but I think Littlefinger’s latest scheme makes absolutely no sense at all. He’s running a huge risk by abandoning his only claim to power - his wardship of Robin Arryn and the control of the Vale - and returning to King’s Landing, where he’ll be back at square one.

Littlefinger’s biggest official claims are to being the de facto Warden of the East, and Lord of Harrenhal. Both those claims are granted by the current crown, and can be removed, so I feel like his position demands some fealty to the kingdom.

Without those claims, he still has control of the Vale, yes, but while that’s undefeatable in defense, I don’t know that he could do much offensively from there.

I have a similar question about Wardens and fealty to the crown, however: How could Sansa Stark be marrying the son of the Warden of the North if she’s wanted for regicide? While the Bolton’s don’t care about that, I’m sure, what would Cersei do when she finds out?

[telecinese]

I’d read your recaps so hard.

[jeblucas]

I didn’t like this episode on a lot of levels.

I know the show canon and the book canon are at odds in a bunch of spots, and that’s not a big deal, but I feel like they are totally blowing it with the Unsullied. They are supposed to be disciplined military experts trained from childhood for a life as soldier slaves. The Sons of the Harpy are what? Former slaveowners? Or folks hired by them? Why the fuck would they have a straight fight with Unsullied? That whole scene would have made a lot more sense if the Sons just appeared on the balconies above the Unsullied and killzoned them with spears. Having it look like a relatively fair fight was out of whack with my head canon.

I’m also so grossed out by Sansa in the north with Ramsay. That’s just not working for me on any level. I feel like she is still getting pushed around, and at this point in the books she starts to have a backbone. I don’t see it yet. And I also have to believe there was plenty of word in the north about how fucking gross Ramsay Snow is. The North remembers, and his adventures should be plenty well known to Sansa at this point, even if she only hears it from a maid.

[L_Mariachi]

At least she isn’t betrothed to Ramsay’s legitimate half-brother Michael.