You can’t separate this discussion from the larger discussion of sexism and misogyny against women in gaming and in society as a whole. This discussion is PART of that larger discussion. You’re dismissing and downplaying the seriousness of this particular discussion OF sexism and misogyny and harassment against women.
I am also having MAJOR de ja vu. We just went through this shit! “Why are we still discussing this?” It’s nearly ver-fucking-batim and it happened like two or three fucking days ago! I had the same exact reply, too: Stop trying to separate these things. I was about to type “stop trying to separate the microaggressions from the larger discussion” but gamergate is not a microaggression. It’s a pretty fucking serious matter. A woman received a bomb threat – and actually, the threat was that if she showed up to make her speech, a lot of other people would potentially be harmed (as well as her).
But sure sure sure, why don’t we just stop talking about it? It’s no big thang, amiright? Other no big thangs will appear in the future ya know? I mean whatevs, man. It’s just death and bomb threats against women.
In other words, “I, a man, have not witnessed any unfairness to the opposite gender in my industry so therefore it probably doesn’t exist. Why are you guys overreacting? I mean I don’t see something that largely does not affect my gender happening, so obviously it doesn’t happen. Stop talking about it!”
Newsflash: Just because you personally don’t witness that does not directly affect you does not mean it doesn’t happen. Don’t you think perhaps the fact that you are not a woman miiiiiiight be the reason you’ve not noticed the unfairness? I wonder if you’ve even attempted to have a discussion about this in meatspace (or online, for that matter) with actual women, or if you’re just basing your opinion as a man about the experience of women on your own personal experiences as a man. I wonder, indeed.
[quote=“Bhobster, post:29, topic:44739, full:true”]
My understanding is Gamergate has alot of issues, but the main one is collusion and unfair practices in the media when it comes to rating games.[/quote]
The data suggests otherwise. If you look at the data about online discussions, both on twitter and elsewhere, you’ll see that the focus of gamergate is much more on cultural issues than on issues of journalistic ethics.
Citation needed. Citations that counteract all of the recent studies done about this very subject which you clearly don’t have any actual understanding or knowledge of. What are you basing these opinions on? I mean other than your anecdotal, personal experience. Anything at all?
“I know what I have seen personally”, sad as some statement of fact as to how things must be (are you a troll are are you fucking serious?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I honestly can’t tell, but your statements are ri-fucking-diculous).
AND! Most interesting:
There is a study that I’ve seen that claims that if 17% women are present in a group, then men perceive it as if the ratio between men are equal, and if the ratio of women present is 33%, men perceive it as there being an imbalance in favor of women. However, my google-fu is failing me at the moment, but I will edit once I’m able to find it (if someone else knows what I’m talking about or has more information or if I’m wrong, please let me know).
But that wasn’t my point, as I said above. I’m just tired of hearing about these particular trollies. They do not deserve the “never forget” treatment. Fighting sexism is still important - but let the war move on from this particular skirmish, to a battle that actually matters - like the growing movement to grant every fetus full civil rights.
Thank you! It appears that it was focused on what men perceive while watching movies and claims that men perceive there to be more women in a movie than there actually are. It may not ultimately be relevant and there seems to be little information, but if it’s true, I do think it would correlate to other areas of social and professional interaction between men and women.
However, I think it correlates quite well to the VERY common stereotype and trope that women talk more than men, although that’s not actually true:
Oh fucking hell. As a woman who also finds abortion rights to be really important, I really, truly ask you sincerely and pointedly not to condescend and assume that we aren’t also taking that shit seriously. In fact, there was JUST a post on BoingBoing about Republican’s in Arizona (my home state) ripping out the pages from a book information about contraception and abortion. Additionally, I must point out that these issues are not unrelated.
Real women have received death and rape threats and other assaults and harassment because of gamergate. Just like we do in other aspects of our life – including related to our sexual and reproductive choices! Do you think bomb threats directed at abortion clinics are that much different than a bomb threat directed at a location a woman has decided to openly and publicly voice her opinion?
Both of these discussions are just as important and just as serious. They are closely related because of the fact that certain segments of society distrust and even hate women, and want to control their behavior and limit their choices. Both groups want women to be seen, not heard. There is a lot of overlap. They are different sides of the same sexist and awful coin.
All right, all right, you win. I’m working 80 hours a week right now. If I don’t have energy left over to be outraged about every single outrage, does that mean I have to vote Republican tomorrow? I really don’t want to.
If you’re not careful, that strawman might burst into flames.
And if you don’t have time to be outraged about every single outrage, WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE? Shouldn’t you be working those 80 hours? This is incredibly and pathetically and predictably contradictory. So basically you have time to be outraged about every single outrage that people are outraged about, but you don’t have time to actually be outraged about the serious things that affect women?!
Here it is again: A man NOT speaking out against the harassment and literal death, bomb, and rape threats, but instead lecturing, berating, and complaining about those who ARE speaking out against the literal death, bomb, and rape threats. And then complaining they totally don’t have time to be concerned about these things, while clearly having enough time to complain about people discussing these important topics.
If you are so out of time, get the fuck back to work and stop complaining about something you’ve said more than once you don’t care about.
Is there an outline out there for this sort of discussion? Because, seriously, I’m having continuing to have some fucking major de ja vu.
I understand what it is like to have issue fatigue, but that doesn’t make talking about the issue any less valid or important. If you are feeling issue fatigue about this issue personally, then skip reading a few posts and rejoin the effort when you are up to it.
It is crucial that we bring as much light to these important issues as possible and make it known that this sort of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. We shouldn’t back off these issues until there is real change.
Sorry, I made it clear that I was talking about my experiences and nothing else. I don’t know what the confusion is. All my bosses in the past 15 years have all been women, and I’ve work with development studios that were almost entirely women. You will forgive me if my views differ.
My citation is it my opinion, as I have said. I can’t think of anyone that would turn down a creative hard working artist or game designer, no matter what their gender, color or orientation. If you do, let me know rather than citing some study. As far as pay scale… I’m underpaid myself so I have no idea.
They were Vice presidents and producers… I thought I mentioned it. Anyways you don’t care, you’ve already made up your mind that my opinion doesn’t matter right?
I am 33 years old, of course I do!. But not consistently and I haven’t seen an episode in a long while (I am terrible at keeping up with TV, even stuff I love, so it’s nothing against South Park). I’d consider myself a casual fan. HOWEVER, I don’t know that I’d appreciate someone using South Park as an example of something in an important, as it’s not a show without problems.
I have deleted some stuff because I am honestly getting @Bhobster and @Boundegar confused. So I am bowing out of this discussion now. But man, is it just me, or are there a lot of NEW people in here saying really similar dismissive stuff?!
