There’s an important discussion to be had on this topic, but this statement just looks like:
I agree that individually, we should treat everyone with the same respect and kindness. I don’t think anyone who cares about such things would disagree. But that ignores the reality of race and history of racism, what it is and what it’s done to particular people who were categorized a particular way.
But you’re basically saying here that systemic racism isn’t/doesn’t continue to be the problem, correct? That the only real problem is individualized racism? Am I wrong to assume that’s your position here? If so, correct me. I can’t disagree enough. There is much less we can do to address individual racism, but systemic racism can more concretely worked out by changes to the system to perpetuates it.
But, again, I don’t think any of this really addresses the work of art itself. [quote=“milliefink, post:69, topic:90944”]
Fuck white liberal sensibilities about race.
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Yeah, I pretty much agree. As a person who is categorized as white (seen as white, understood as white, raised as white, etc), systemic racism doesn’t impact me as much as it does a POC. Obviously. Sure, it sucks to be called names or whatever (and again, kindness and empathy is a great thing), but I also realize that my whiteness gives me certain privileges that others don’t have.
So, no fattys in art. Got it.
That’s less fat shaming, so thanks.
I specifically asked that question of @failquail, and they deflected by doubling down on their definition of racism as equally impacting all individuals in a society, regardless of history or current views on race. As if systems of power are entirely irrelevant. I don’t think it is. Part of the problem in communication here is that they don’t think that there is a systemic problem or at least not one that the artist is commenting on, while others of us think that it’s very specifically what they are commenting on. I think that far too often, the deconstruction theory is just thought of as postmodern nonsense rather than having any weight in how our society is structured. [quote=“failquail, post:79, topic:90944”]
then again i’m not sure there’s not enough common ground here.
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I’m afraid you might be right. And BTW, I’m certainly not saying that individual racism, as you view it doesn’t exist and isn’t a problem. But individualized bigotry is not the only or CORE problem, as I see it. By saying the problem exists only as an individualized problem, it entirely negates the systemic view, but saying that there is a systemic view doesn’t automatically negate the individualized view of bigotry.
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I’d argue that individualized racism is what leads to systemic racism, and that you need to tackle the former to remove the chief cause of what fuels the latter…
I’ll repeat your ‘correct me if i’m wrong’ statement for myself too. If there’s a better solution i’m all ears.
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The artist.
Some of the people on the thread.
I rather think the opposite. Individuals have a tendency to learn from society.
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On a certain scale. It requires the racist-leaning to be the reasonably relative minority, i sadly do not think we’re there yet. Close though.
Both the US and the UK have a large (mostly elderly) population raised on horrifically biased rightwing media…
Once the balance switches you’ll be correct i think.
I disagree. There is a pretty solid argument to be made that, historically, the systemic emerged prior to individualized racism. It’s about giving some rights to one group, but not another, making them appear to be the natural order of things. Prior to Bacon’s rebellion in the late 17th century in the Virginia colonies, American colonial society was generally class based. Slaves (mainly African) and indentured servants (mainly European) were treated more similarly. Africans enjoyed a status similar to indentured servants, could be freed in similar ways (hence there were many freemen communities that mixed regularly with freed indentured servants. Post-rebellion, a series of acts that encoded race into the laws were passed by the Virginia Burgess in order to create different classes of people in order to stop another similar rebellion.
The legal system is a good example. The fact that much of the population of state and federal prison terms are men of color isn’t really up for debate, yeah? But to think that it always comes down to just individual malice over systemic issues, misses the forest for the trees. It doesn’t just go back to, say a racist jury or judge. It’s how policing unfolds in different communities in different ways. It’s access to opportunities to pull oneself out of poverty and want. It’s the environment one is exposed to as a child. It’s policies of policing. While we overturned racist voting laws and accommodation laws in public places, by the late 1960s, we had started the war on drugs in earnest, which has disproportionately impacted communities of color in how it’s been implemented.
I don’t think there is any singular, simple answer. I think calling out discrimination, when we see it helps. I think addressing and understanding system racism helps. I think passing laws that address those histories helps. I think having conversations like this helps. But there is no silver bullet to fix system or individual racism.
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Ah! Thanks.
Again, thanks.
Not actually a thing, BTW.
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A problem with doing that is that racism is often unconscious, and people don’t like to confront uncomfortable truths about themselves.
I don’t seriously believe that (most) HR people look at a resume and literally think to themselves “This person has a black-sounding name; they must be less qualified.” However, a study shows that they tend to get fewer call backs.
Unconscious racism is no less a problem than conscious racism is, and it’s almost impossible to find, let alone eliminate. Systemic racism is measurable and can be targeted.
I think that’s the way we have to fight this: a system can be fought and defeated, but you’re never going to change every last dark corner of every mind.
Besides, I believe that a diversity of opinion is a good thing. Just, you know, not when it’s able to have a negative impact on the lives of millions of people.
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Interesting.
I certainly agree with the last paragraph at least.
I do have significant problems with the drug issue though. As this is an entirely manufactured ‘problem’ by the right that just dislikes a certain class of drug, regardless of the overall vast negative consequences of criminalising it* What needs to be done rather than the unachievable position of banning it is simple investment in poverty-stricken areas, but that is something unpalatable to rightwing-inclined minds…
*If the solution is worse than the problem, the solution is no solution…
I don’t think that’s what @failquail said or meant, but I’ll leave it to them to clarify. I don’t want to put words into their mouth.
I think that not agreeing with you on the way to analyse the problem isn’t a denial that there is a problem . Like I said in my earlier post, I think you’re both opposed to racism (yes, race based bigotry if you prefer), you’re just looking at it from two different angles. My best guess would be that @failquail thinks that systematic racism is an emergent property of individual racism and legal state enforced racism. But again, get them to clarify.
Given the limited bandwidth of the art in question, can you see how it can simply come across as a racist(bigoted) statement which is therefore part of the problem.
Also, the artist’s reluctance to put this message out there says to me that they knew that it would come across as a bigoted statement, and went ahead anyway.
It’s an interesting way to look at language. But its ability to do anything other than re-state its assumptions when applied to real-world problems is… limited.
If you look at something through a green tinted lens, you find green things everywhere you look.
Similarly, if you view everything through a deconstructionist lens, you’ll see opposing binaries wherever you look, regardless of the accuracy of that view.
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There is no thanks required. Thank you.
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That is also a huge factor of driving individualized racism, because it’s acceptable in society…
Bit of a chicken and egg situation really… But i’d still argue that individualised racism is the core and social acceptance is the chief result… Even if they do feed on each other a fair bit.
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On a side note. Much 
for boingboing for being one of the rare online places where this hasn’t descended into outright trolling and is still an actual discussion 
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Aren’t you making a false equivalence?
If it was a black person wearing a suit saying ‘fuck black people’ the effect would be very different, wouldn’t it?
It’d be confusing, right? Whereas in this case, the reason for the sentiment is obvious.
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Not that a few haven’t tried
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Persons who perceive themselves as rugged individualists act as they are programmed to act by society.
There’s very little unique under the sun.
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I draw the line at saying the art shouldn’t be made. However, I don’t think it will foster meaningful conversation beyond giving racists talking points, scaring Ma and Pa Kettle, making analyzers analyze, and making hair shirt anti-racists even more smug. Then again, I think scaring Ma and Pa Kettle is pretty damn funny, which is why I love gay pride parades.
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