I dunno, this verges on a debate about epistemology
How can we KNOW what was IN HIS HEAD, or what he INTENDED, or how long he THOUGHT ABOUT IT, as he … spent ten minutes deliberately killing the guy?
I can see how the defense will argue there was no forethought
but it’s hardly obvious and I don’t know why the prosecutor would give it away
IT ISN’T NICE - Malvina Reynolds (from memory): “It isn’t nice to block the doorways / It isn’t nice to go to jail / There are nicer ways to do it / But the nice ways always fail.”
I feel like people are unconsciously giving the perpetrators the benefit of the doubt because they were wearing police uniforms—if it was four random civilian black men executing a white cop in the street, what would they be charged with?
This is precisely the kind of stuff lawyers argue and what they get paid the big bucks for. Arguing about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin level of sophistry.
Murder 2 involves an intentional act of homicide. Its the necessary element of the crime. For that kind of charge, there really isn’t much of a choice for the prosecutor. The point is to argue that the act was likely to kill Floyd, so it was an intentional act meant to kill him. Its a tough charge in the situation. Again, I think the depraved indifference standard of MN’s Murder 3 is far easier to meet and more applicable.
I still don’t see how continuing to kneel on a person’s neck for 9 minutes while people are telling you “you’re killing him” and the person whose neck you’re kneeling on is saying “I cant breathe” doesn’t constitute an intentional act of homicide. If I hit a person in the head with a hammer repeatedly, while onlookers tell me I’m going to kill that person if I keep doing it, and the person I’m hitting is crying “stop hitting me”, in what way am I not committing an intentional act meant to kill them by continuing to hit them with that hammer?
And now you have an idea how the Prosecution is probably going to present it. I am not ruling out a Murder 2 conviction. I am just saying its not the easiest thing in the world here.
The Defense is likely to portray it as using what would normally be a legitimate form of restraint that generally doesn’t result in fatality, that simply went on too long. He should have stopped and was indifferent to the pleas of Floyd and people around him.
IMO Murder 3 is an easier charge under the depraved indifference standard.
But then again, I have no experience in criminal law nor how things go in Minnesota. So what the hell do I know? 
Which would be a separate charge and be ancillary to the main charge of homicide. Something which would lengthen the sentence.
…and that is why nobody likes them.
I dunno, have you seen the Republican delegation in Congress? Or the president? Quite a few people seem to like them… Heck, the only reason Strom Thurmond is no longer a senator is because he died. In 2003.
Odd how tolerant people are of hateful bastards who continue regardless of their negative effect on a society. One can only hope it is the chance that they may finally change.
… and that’s why nobody nice likes them.
Some of them forgot why the Republican party was formed in the first place. They need to brush up a bit on their genesis.
I’m sure many were, but I’m confident that Keith Ellison and his team know what they are doing and know what the stakes are. I’m also confident that are being very thoughtful about the charges they intend to prosecute and are trying to go with charges supported by the evidence. Based on the evidence that we’ve seen thus far it seems like murder 2 is appropriate. Reading the Minnesota statutes on murder 1 vs 2, 2 doesn’t require intent or premeditation and has a whole section covering unintentional murder.
I still have a sinking feeling that a murder charge will be a stretch to successfully prosecute but manslaughter seems like a slam dunk. It looks like the other three officers were charged with aiding and abetting both murder and manslaughter giving some runway if one of the of the two charges fails to stick on Chauvin.
We’ve seen how hard it is to successfully prosecute cops in the past, and god help is all of these guys don’t end up serving some serious jail time as they rightly deserve.
Minnesota’s murder statues are…weird. Murder 2 doesn’t require intent as long as you’re committing another felony that ultimately results in their death. Murder 3 just requires reckless disregard for human life. Every state is a little different in its laws.
(INAL too, I’m just a law nerd.)
Fucking this.
Without the uprisings there wouldn’t be a charge. The city was content with a firing.
Demonstrations are a great tool. Even civil disobedience like shutting down a freeway if things don’t improve. Destruction of people’s businesses, homes, cars. People who have nothing to do with the issue. People who now have no work, way to get around, lost massive amounts of time, money, life. This is an unacceptable way to seek change. Purposely fucking someone over to improve your situation is just plain wrong. Like I stated before. I wholy support the demonstrators, I want the looters and destroyers to pay dearly.
Steve here, has nothing to do with the police and the murder and yet his store was robbed blind and destroyed. Now him and his family are completely screwed. One example of hundreds.
This is just in the twin cities:
How much of the rampage damage resulted from boogaloo provocateurs?
They aren’t the audience. No one is going to change their minds, and they can’t get more racist.
The people who are affected by the riots are those who would otherwise sit safely on the sidelines. Peaceful protest has already been largely ignored. You can’t ignore what’s happened in Minneapolis.
Update on Chauvin’s voting antics…
My statement applies to anyone, regardless of creed or motives.
That was my point, exactly.
I am not ignoring the destruction, I want them rounded up and made to pay for their random acts of violence and vandalism against innocent people. The people who demonstrated against the police brutality get my support, the looters can rot in a hole.
it’s so frustrating when the world isn’t as orderly as we want to be
