The difference in the level of consciousness between a fox and an insect? I sincerely doubt that an insect has sufficient awareness to experience suffering.
Are you only talking about the observers?
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No, I am talking about the animals.
I just don’t think that lack of meaningfulness necessarily follows from lack of sophistication. I’m pretty sure the insect does not want to be eaten, would take any action available to avoid it and isn’t enjoying the experience at all.
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There is research that suggests hermit crabs can feel pain and remember it to the point that they will choose an inferior sheel in order to avoid it in future, and be more likely to risk predation to switch shells at higher levels of pain. This suggests they can consciously feel pain and act on the experience in a considered way. I don’t believe crabs are all that far removed from spiders or insects. Definitely not further than from humans.
Elwood et al (2009) Pain and stress in crustaceans? Applied Animal Behaviour Science 118. 128-136.
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Archibald MacLeish (possibly my favourite minor poet)
Empty as conch shell by the water cast
The metaphor still stands but cannot tell
And we like parasite crabs put on the shell
And at the sea’s edge drag it up and down.
However, I’m not sure he was really comparing minor poets to hermit crabs (which are also not parasites btw).
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Maybe so, but spider’s gotta eat, bro!
Though, it would be kind of cool to be able to carry your house around on your back. Especially for minor poets I suspect.
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Can’t be a real poet if you don’t have a day job, after all.
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I was under the impression that it depends on the species? Or at least, that it was at least as common for both sexes of a given species to build webs as it is for the male to not?
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OT, T S Eliot had a day job in a bank. It seems that various people in the literary establishment felt sorry for him, having to toil in an office, and when he became a director of Faber they thought he had been rescued.
Actually he was a very successful banker and was called in by Faber because they were in financial trouble - he made them very profitable. It was said that had he stayed in banking he would have made director.
MacLeish was Librarian of Congress for 5 years and a professor at Harvard.
Having a proper day job seems to be good for poets.
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I’m no arachnologist but in my research and understanding, for the species that create webs, it’s generally the females that create web homes. Males can create webs to hunt but their primary focus is finding a mate. If you see a web with a spider at the center, it’s almost certainly a female. Also females are generally significantly larger than males, so the silk making capacity of male spiders is much more limited.
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This is one step above that time in college when we found a moldy loaf of bread in the dorm we were in, upon coming back to school in September. We decided to just leave it in the bag for a while. About eight months later it was indeed a nice little terrarium.
Looking back, I just go urgh.
That there is a spider feedin tube
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You need to put a little lego Frodo in there.
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I for one etc etc…
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I’m definitely a botanist before ecologist, so I think we’re on the same page in terms of experience with spiders. The bulk of what I know is gleaned from a correspondence with Dr. Rick Vetter a few years back, and that primarily deals with the fiddle-back genus and other media-hyped species.
From what I found, you’re very right, except for the dimorphism argument. While extreme dimorphism does exist in many web-building, “sit and wait” species, it is not so extreme in others. Research actually suggests that the size difference is primarily due to maternal investment (Prenter et al., 1995; Head, 1995). The Head study indicates the selection for female size actually operates on fecundity.
If you think about it, it actually makes sense that it’s not a size restriction that keeps males from producing webs. If you’re familiar with spider anatomy, spider silk production isn’t like squeezing glue from a tube or preexisting supply. The glands actively produce and secrete the silk proteins as the silk is drawn from the body by the individual.
SOURCES:
Head, G. (1995). Selection on fecundity and variation in the degree of sexual size dimorphism among spider species (Class Araneae). Evolution 49: 776-781.
Prenter, J., Montgomery, W. I. & Elwood, R. W. (1995). Multivariate morphometrics and sexual dimorphism in the orb-web spider Metellina segmentata (Clerck, 1757) (Araneae, Metidae). Bid. J. Linn. Soc. 55: 345-354.
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And Wallace Stevens, insurance exec (i think) and W C Williams, doctor.
Fair enough, but the hounds are trained and coaxed by humans to kill the fox, aren’t they? And they can be fed organic, gluten free, fair trade, all vegetable kibble and be perfectly nourished. While the spider is merely capitalizing on the opportunity provided by these guys at work, is responding entirely on instinct, and has no kibble-based options for nourishment. What say?
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