How Harley-Davidson killed itself

I am a typical Boomer motorcyclist, well maybe not too typical because I call myself a motorcyclist instead of a biker. I bought my first bike in 1972 and have logged over 100,000 miles on two wheels since then. I have owned Harleys, Hondas, BMWs, Ducatis and Triumphs. In my opinion Harley’s troubles did NOT start with Reagan. Their problems were caused by a mix of cultural change and competitive bikes that came to the US in the 1950s and 1960s. The British bikes were quicker and lighter. The bikes from Japan were cheaper and more reliable, and marketed as “fun.” AMF bought Harley in 1968… just before Honda brought out the groudbreaking CB750 in 1969. Harley probably would have died then except for the buyout from AMF led, at least symbolically, by Willie G Davidson who is a grandson of one of the founders of HD. That group did get help from Reagan, but then they used that breathing room to build a marketing powerhouse over the next couple of decades. They even (eventually) built some pretty good bikes. As the presenter notes they got trapped into a niche, but that trap was the result of their marketing success. Waiting lists and dealer markups grew year after year. So did profits. I would argue that the real failure was Harley’s lack of any real success in expanding beyond the Boomers like me. They tried. They bought Buell and MV Agusta. Then they shut down Buell and sold MV back to its former owners for one euro when they were not immediately successful. They had the right idea. They knew that they needed to change. They just botched the transition from being a boomer/nostalgia/macho brand into being a world class motorcycle company. I hope their new CEO has the courage to keep HD from becoming a parody of itself. Wild Hogs was parody enough.

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@beschizza :+1: on the edit

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I was being unabashedly chauvinist there and speaking just as a USAian. I’ll note that I see a surprising number of Harleys in places like Slovenia, Croatia, eastern Austria, and the Czech Republic. I don’t see many in southern Germany, but I did see a few at a bierkeller in Franconia, but it was on that beer tour route they have in the Franconian Switzerland, and I didn’t look at the plates (I was hot, grumpy, and focused on getting a beer and a place to sit).

Anyway… in Europe, there seems to be an overlap in the places I see Harleys and also big trucks with Confederate flags. This could be because of a confirmation bias for my theory that it’s connected to right wing populism in the former East. I’ll look closer next time, but I don’t know when that’ll be, because of this virus. I’m really missing seeing my family over there…

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I subscribed a while ago, it’s a great channel if you like motorcycles. Their gear reviews tend to be similarly intelligent, probably one of the most useful videos they’ve made was about what marketing terms used in helmet tech specs matter. (Like, I now know why I am going to spend $400 on my next helmet.)

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I had a student with a half-liter Buell. It was pretty nice. He was almost apologetic about owning it, though. I think it was partly displacement shame and partly Harley shame. I would have been happy to call it my own, but I get excited about anything at around 500cc. It’s my sweet spot.

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I love my Interceptor 650 (INT650 in the USA). It’s a fun well built bike. Parts were a little slow and then everything got slow so we’ll see how they can keep up with demand when the world brings things back online. I’m looking forward to what Royal Enfield does with the 650 platform they’ve built. The Bullets always looked fun too but I’ve never ridden one. The 400cc Himalayan with a 650 engine might make for nice middle of the pack adventure bike.

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I’m only surprised private equity companies aren’t involved here, given all the collapsing companies whose demise was due to private equity and whose collapses were presented in the media as being about branding issues…

I knew a couple some years ago who, facing the imminent break-up of their marriage and living well beyond their means, decided to buy a couple of Harleys, to give themselves some suburban cool. They managed to hold onto them for a couple months, if I recollect, before the bankruptcy. When I think of Harley-Davidson, that’s what I think of, as it seemed fairly symbolic.

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For the record this user name is not because I’m a HD fan boy. I have owned, wrenched, and ridden most everything on two wheels including this fading American classic.Harley is the name given to me by my parents, who claimed they got it from Henry Fonda’s character in the film “The Cheyenne Social Club”. Lately the only ridding I do is with the kids in the dirt, on a bike I bought at auction from the boarder patrol and rebuilt, a Honda crf450x.

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That’s because Harley is already so deep in debt from its stock buyback addiction that even the vulture capitalists can’t see a way to turn it into a bust-out. That’s how bad it is.

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It’s not perfect. This may be a regional thing, but I see a lot of Harleys with African American and Latino riders in the Bay Area. At the same time, there are outlaw 1% clubs on the west coast that are non-white. So, Harley does manage to have some success with marketing across racial lines (but it’s the same tough guy image).

That said, the Bay Area is also home to the Harley rider who paved a swastika into his driveway.

(For the record: I am a millennial motorcyclist, my main bike is a Yamaha liter bike. I went into a n H-D dealership to buy boots once, and asked about the Street 750 when I started talking bikes with the sales guy, and because I was in the market for a 700 class bike (I bought an FZ-07 and since upgraded to the MT10). Dude immediately poo-pooed the 750 and tried to upsell me to a Sportster. Which at the time looked big and dumb and slow. That probably alienated me forever, even if they do build something that can keep up with a real sport bike)

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Borrowing heavily to finance stock buybacks is basically the private equity game plan executed by the existing leadership. That just makes they buyout itself superfluous.

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One of my regulars at one of the bars I worked at was a salesman at a Harley dealer.

And the guy just seemed completely unaware of anything but their biggest, most expensive bikes. He used to hang around and pitch anyone who was half interested in bikes try to get them to come by and do a test drive or something.

His entire pitch was targeted against Honda Goldwings and “jap shit”. Which is really weird when the guy you’re trying to sell is into Husquavarna off roady stuff or retro euro bikes. Best case scenario they agree the Harley is better than a bike they’d never want.

Challenged on quality he’d start listing all the luxury brands associated with the various off the shelf parts, essentially trying to spin parts bin special as a high end positive.

He apparently made most of his money selling clothing and accessories. He’d go months without selling a bike. But handfuls of whale customers would come by once a month to buy jackets, coolers, and stuff for bikes they’d owned for a decade.

I work in sales but the whole thing was fairly pathetic and desperate. Basically throwing ten tons of BS at anyone who would listen in hopes of getting them through the door. At which point he’d sell them a jacket and a bunch of t-shirts. It was very clear selling motorcycles was not the priority. Rather it was about hooking people into the brand and selling all the other stuff, bike or not.

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Cleveland and Akron have a few non-white MCs, some riding Harleys, some riding anything big and scary-looking. They generally do not mix with white MCs around here, at least when wearing colors. When we were playing in a blues band, we saw LOTS of bikers, associated with clubs or not, and when it came to admiring bikes, it didn’t matter about races or skin, only the bike.
That being said, I saw more HD merchandise on people than actual HD bikes, and those riders usually didn’t wear the branded stuff (unless they were new).

I really like motocycles, and my favorites (not counting Vincents) are usually Harleys. The sound everyone here seems to hate is one of my favorite noises. I’ve always loved that sound. Just this past year, I found out my birth parents met in a motorcycle club, so I guess that’s genetic!

We want one. If we lived somewhere where it didn’t rain or snow 3/4 of the time, we’d probably have one. They’re big, luxurious, stable versions of the bikes we had in our past, and we’d be able to ride again. And they’re much faster than the other two-person mobility scooters we’ve seen. :rofl:

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I’d say that it has more to do with glorification of anything that is American in former Warsaw Pact countries. It’s that way because during Warsaw Pact years many people had family members residing in US, and quality of life was uncomparable then. Here in Poland Harley-Davidson is viewed as a luxury brand (I don’t share that belief, but it’s a popular one).

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For me, at least, it’s not so much that I hate the sound itself, I just hate being unwillingly subjected to it at unreasonable levels when I’m just trying to have a conversation with someone on the sidewalk or listen to music in my own home.

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And on the subject of BWM bikes, I find this one interesting:

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I was born in 1964. At that time only two things didn’t get any upgrade, but interpretation: the Bible and the Harley’s. Now just the Bible!

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I definitely do not hate the sound, and one of my favorite things about my MT10 is its cross plane crank. Odd firing engines sound the best, and Harley Davidson is the king of that sound.

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Wow. My Japanese wonder bike was half the price, is more reliable and will outrun any Harley. H-D doesn’t make anything that is actually fast. (Buells and the XR1200 were pretty legit, but the video covers what happened there…)

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It’s even weirder when you think about it. Some one says they’re looking into a Ducati Scrambler and the pitch is “Let me tell you why the most expensive Harley is better than a Honda Goldwing.”

How the ever loving hell is that gonna get the guy who wants a completely different kind of motorcycle through the door?

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