I have so many likes.
When, as you say, you start from a non combative position, it is so much better for everyone. Many of us here, and I am guilty as well, lack nuance or the instinct to back away.
This woman showed empathy and grace in a way I want to emulate. You do as well, btw. Let’s all elevate our discourse (pun totally intended) and get closer to each other.
There have been a few people who have escaped from the Westbro Baptist Church over the years and have spoken out.
People who escape from high-control groups, and then mentally escape (which can take years), often turn out to be nice people, thoughtful because they’ve had to re-examine all the thinking that most of us take for granted. (Of course there are the people who were rotten when they were in, and rotten afterwards.)
I do wonder what’s happening with Westboro these days. They kicked out Fred Phelps, before he croaked, for not being hard-line enough. Hmm.
Demonizing anyone who questions the way you demonize anyone, that must be a heck of a life.
So, you’re no longer disappointed in BoingBoing? Ring Bells! Ring Bells!
I know in the past I was more guilty of lumping people into groups. At some point I made a conscious effort to try not to do that. Yes, yes many people do live up to the stereotype in your head. As one is exposed to more forums online, one is sure to be pegged as this or that, even though the label doesn’t always fit. I think having labels assigned to me in the past (pre-internet!) is also a reason I try not to make blanket assumptions.
Just because you show support or enthusiasm for A, doesn’t mean you also like B. For an example.
Me too. And of course I learned the hard way that things are just more enjoyable when ya just let go. But as with everything, I’m a damn slow learner.
As a tangent, I really don’t think you get enough credit for your contributions. Your patience is incredible, yet you stick to your guns (oh, that joke was on purpose as well 
). We are lucky to have you around.
Muhammed Ali once said ,"the man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life. " Hopefully, none of us end up wasting 30 years trying to see the world from a different view.
I also agree with Mister44. Coming from a position of neutrality is meeting people half way and it is the least that any of us can do. Unless you are the sort of person who just does the “job” ( certainly exists in the church and what have you) they are paid for without actually believing what they say, (I sincerly hope that is the case with Sean Spicer) then most folks are really convinced. Believing in something gives us a holdfast in a big, lonely world. Asking someone to give up on something that is an elemental part of their being is like standing on the edge of a cliff and telling them to jump.
Do I personally feel like going after these people who are screaming hate from a street corner? Hell yes- I’m only human. On the other hand, my mother told me when we were kids that if you have a roof over your head, 3 hot meals a day and family that loves you then you have more than most of the people on this planet will ever have. It reminds me to try and have some understanding for people who possibly grew up without one of those things.
Then she told us to stop our whining and go clean our rooms.
Here’s why I left
“Christ, I don’t want to be an asshole.”
With high-control systems, which include some religious cults but could include fanatical political groups, military, etc, the system can take on a life of its own. Even though systems are made up of people, probably no worse that the average person, and is the sum of individual human actions, systems are capable of doing evil much worse than than most of the people involved.
Each person in an evil system is indoctrinated not to question or even think about their actions, and is meanwhile given permission, orders, duty, little thought-stoppers: “everyone else is doing it”, “it’s the natural order”, “it’s the way of things”, “God’s will”…
With those, an otherwise normal person is capable of going far beyond what would be their normal limits if they were thinking about it and had to make a moral choice.
Sometimes, for whatever reason, a person in that situation will suddenly start thinking, and question the system. It seems that even Fred Phelps had second thoughts before the end, and then the system turned on him as an enemy. True, it had a champion in Steve Drain, but evil systems can always find one.
Evil systems dehumanize their enemies, reduce them to abstracts to be hated. Don’t be like them. In a fight between us and them, victory is when them become us. (Which might include expanding the definition of us.)
Contains disturbing images:
I think it’s a combination of both. I do think we need to confront bigotry personally and I think we need to confront it politically.
I was raised a rabid Branhamite, albeit one who already had a solid background in ethics thanks to Mr Rogers and his understudy, Mr Dressup. I was four years old when my family went completely barking mad.
During the “dark years”, as I call them, I read every bit of rhetoric Branham spewed. By the age of ten, I had read the Bible (KJV only) cover to cover six times. I blundered about online picking fights on random forums, assured that I was defending the honour of the prophet.
You know what deconverted me? Two things: I already had noticed inconsistencies with the bible and Branham’s take on it. But what also helped was getting a good snack from the chair leg of truth: one forum poster notes that none of Branham’s back story happened the way he claimed. A few years later, evidence came out to prove Branham a liar - but by then I had already become a full fledged SJW.
I attribute my fight for Justice to my grandfather, born a dirt poor Chilean who bootstrapped himself, organized for socialism, and was marked for death by Pinochet’s regime. He bootstrapped himself and his family again in Canada, starting his Canadian career as a dishwasher.
Oh. Around 2010/2011 - just before decpnverting, I became active at Salon and Alternet. Supposed Christian values did not match with the actions of mainstream “Christians”. This, too - the values dissonance - contributed.
Being patient and reasonable can make your argument more palatable. However, ensure that your argument is based in evidence - and link liberally. A curious person will read and be changed.
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