In seizing control over the Supreme Court, Poland's authoritarian rulers sought to consolidate power

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How did Poland get to it’s current situation? How or why did this current party come to power? I’m sure i can Google this but hoping there’s someone here that is a bit savvy with what’s going on there to give some insight.


The president has now vetoed the law.


Inb4 first urination joke.

Hm. Between this, the rightward swing in the U.S./U.K., and the trial of the imprisoned journalists in Turkey (great interview this morning on BBC World with the former editor of their oldest paper, maybe Cumhuriyet, now in exile in Germany), three things:

First, I’m depressingly convinced of a human craving for authoritarian leadership.
Second, why now? What’s the trigger behind all of this?
Third, are we headed for irreparable neo-feudalism?

Feeling pretty solid about my decision not to be a parent. I can’t imagine the frustration and fear of having to leave this world to one’s children.


Pretty sure the TGOP and 45 are taking notes on how to do this here in the US.


from Poles, who came out en masse to fight such legislative initiatives

…and they came out en Masse in the 2015 parliamentary election to vote for PiS and get them the current majority. They got what they voted for…

I hope Brussels invokes §7 sanctions and considers their “solidarity” and conduct in the next EU multiannual budget negotiations.


Sanctions in what way?

It was my understanding the EUs purpose is to promote free trade, freedom of movement, and a common currency between its members, not to police individual countries internal politics.

The justice minister will now have discretion over which Supreme Court judges remain in office and who is forced into retirement.

Gee, what a great idea.


People these days are really getting sick of liberty, equality and justice.


Your understanding is wrong - the EU isn’t just a trade union, it’s also a community of values. The Brits had the same misconception…

Article 2
The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. These values are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail.

Article 7
(ex Article 7 TEU)

  1. On a reasoned proposal by one third of the Member States, by the European Parliament or by the European Commission, the Council, acting by a majority of four fifths of its members after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, may determine that there is a clear risk of a serious breach by a Member State of the values referred to in Article 2. Before making such a determination, the Council shall hear the Member State in question and may address recommendations to it, acting in accordance with the same procedure.
    The Council shall regularly verify that the grounds on which such a determination was made continue to apply.
  2. The European Council, acting by unanimity on a proposal by one third of the Member States or by the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, may determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach by a Member State of the values referred to in Article 2, after inviting the Member State in question to submit its observations.
  3. Where a determination under paragraph 2 has been made, the Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide to suspend certain of the rights deriving from the application of the Treaties to the Member State in question, including the voting rights of the representative of the government of that Member State in the Council. In doing so, the Council shall take into account the possible consequences of such a suspension on the rights and obligations of natural and legal persons.
    The obligations of the Member State in question under this Treaty shall in any case continue to be binding on that State.

TL;DR: Straying to far from agreed upon democratic standards may lead to loss of voting rights

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Same for me.
But the parents I talk with are much more hopeful than I am, they have to be.


Remember? Denying a standing President a Supreme Court Nomination? They are already doing this.



It would be a huge help if smart reasonable people would reproduce.

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I am surprising they even took Turkeys application.

Joining the EU is a multi-year/decades process in which the applying country has to adjust it’s laws and standards to conform to EU requirements.

Turkey was on a good way (abolishing the death penalty etc.) but then Erdogan happened…


To be fair, Etdoğan was the hope of most (neo and old-school) liberals at first. And had quite some impact, boosting the Turkish economy.

What happened since the high hopes is a bit opaque to me, but judging from Erdoğans quite erratic public appearances on international level, I have the feeling those hopes were misguided in the first place. (Remember the Gaza flotilla outburst on a public panel? Everyone was staring at this, and ignored it quickly.)

Poland, on the other hand, is even more complicated. PiS’ success seems to build on the Hungarian model, which in a way goes back to berlusconiesque inspiration. That the EU swallowed the Hungarian model, and Juncker even publicly joked about it, is a dead serious mistake. Which might be a fallout of the economic crisis, I guess? Anyway, Poland right now is amazingly polarised - last week, the first articles suggested that the next step would be armed conflict between the supporters of PiS and their opponents.

What the hell has happened THERE, in the civil society, outside the political arena, I don’t have the faintest idea. I really need to talk to my polish friends, but I count they understand what’s going on, either.

Would a smart and reasonable person start a reproduction race with the christians?

Its not a contest - just trying to prevent extinction.