Since you mentioned it without linking:
I think it’s one of her best videos yet.
(Also, I’m agged to find out that “hon” is now a slur; that’s one of my favorite Midwestern terms of endearment!)
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I’m at the 2 minute part and pausing to type this as I’m in serious cringe here.
Edit: Jesus Christ, It does get worse.
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I’ll have to watch that later, so I may be missing some context and apologies if so. Also, maybe I’m overthinking this, but in defense of “hon”…
Addressing someone as “hon” or “honey” seems very context dependent. Like any emotionally quasi-intimate term of endearment, it can sound condescending, patronizing and/or presumptions coming from a mere acquaintance or relative stranger. Perhaps that’s the equivalent of languages that have more and less formal modes of address in other languages. I’ve gotten myself in minor trouble with this in Italy (though I got more slack as a bumbling non-native speaker).
But from a someone I know well enough, the use of “hon” (for me at least and recognizing I’m only one interlocutor with no special authority on the matter) is largely about whether the tone of voice is audibly sarcastic. Even if it is, a close friend will get a pass because my friends and I speak sarcasm and know no harm is likely meant by it.
It may also be a function of my age and the age of the circles I run in being out of touch.
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That guy in CA who shot some people and wrote a giant biography/manifesto - I read like half of it. Maybe I should finish it someday. But yeesh. Honestly I am sure there have ALWAYS been people like this, but with social networks facilitated by the internet, you now have groups encouraging each other and growing.
I can’t help but think this could be fixed with most people with - uh - I am going to use the word “training”. That isn’t the right word, but remember back in the day there were etiquette classes? Something to get people who have social issues to be able to function in a social setting.
Then those who have already gone down this path clearly need some Cognitive Behavior Therapy. Yes yes, I am not a Psychologist but because I suffered from a negative feed back loop, that is clearly what is going on for some of these people. You can get over that with some work.
Of course there are sociopaths and psychotics that you can’t really fix.
Also, while I don’t frequent her channel, I have watched that Counterpoints Incel episode and I think she was pretty spot on and echos some things I said above. And it shows that while they are broken - they are actually broken in a similar way a lot of people are. It just manifest in this really undesirable way.
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This is why the opening scene was so brilliant. It was all red flags; approaching from behind, leading questions probing about her plans, thrusting his hand into her personal space, placing his chair in a clearly uncomfortable and invasive way, giving advice on how she could “improve” her appearance, demanding more info about her. It was a real master class in what not to do. If these guys would spend 10% of the time they spend on pornhub and incel forums reading about affirmative consent, first-hand accounts of sexual violence and you know, what women actually find attractive in a partner, I think they’d find it much easier to navigate this aspect of life.
Unfortunately, that’s not really the issue. It’s no coincidence that they use imagery from Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. They have chosen this particular rabbit hole instead of coping with their own emotions.
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I confess, I haven’t watched it yet; I have a date this afternoon, and I want to keep my head-space ‘positive’ so I can fully enjoy myself and the company I’m keeping.
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This kept coming to my mind, too. Kids learned socialization in the neighborhood and at school when I was a kid. Even though gaming wasn’t huge then we had activities outside of school with lots of interaction. What kind of school/home isolation bubble leads to such poor social skills at the age of 21?
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Well I think the internet allows you to “socialize” with out “socializing”. Which can be nice, but it is just different, as we all know.
I wasn’t exactly popular in high school, but I still have a small group of people I’d visit with and and least one good friend who would hang out with me on the weekends etc. Actually, like most people, I found my “tribe” outside of school and at places that held my interests - i.e. the comic shop.
But instead of going to the comic shop or where ever, they are at home stewing online. In a way they too are finding their “tribe”, but it is a self destructive interest.
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Culmination ≠ conclusion. Agree the ending is ambiguous.
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Meh, I think you already get it. Have fun on your date!
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For me her best was autogynephelia https://youtu.be/6czRFLs5JQo but I think a lot of it is that her story has so many resonating points to it and she just crushes the fucking dumb idea
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I don’t think I’ve ever been called “hon” except as a term of passive-aggressive condescension. Except as a child, when it was just plain condescension. As in “Aw, honey, did you fail your art final? Maybe next time you’ll get it. See you next year!” (Thankfully, I changed schools and didn’t have to take Art any more; I hate drawing with a passion to this day).
This makes me think back to a time when it was impossible to directly communicate with such a specific demographic. To interact socially at all, you needed to get through a heterogeneous group of folk, most of whom were not virgins.
So even for the concept of “incel” to take root and spread, boys would have to sidestep all the other social interactions we used to take for granted, and only talk to other boys.
It reminds of that bit in The Diamond Age where those neo-victorians saw the wisdom in everyone reading the same newspaper, rather than the custom crafted news diet that was technically possible. This film suggests the concept should maybe be taken beyond just news media.
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What gets me is the formative years though - before high school. Were the 20-somethings of today online all day from K-8? That’s the age when my peers learned how to talk to others (of all ages), interact with other kids, etc… People did their own thing after school, and some preferred to be alone. Still, for at least 8 hours a day, you were not alone in a room. This is where I’m not understanding how that level of isolation gets started.
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I can’t help but think this could be fixed with most people with - uh - I am going to use the word “training”. That isn’t the right word, but remember back in the day there were etiquette classes?
The main character said something in his video, starting with. “Ever since puberty…” and what that made me think about was the emotional neglect that sours so many boys, begins long before puberty. It’s at the point of puberty that this huge gaping need for affection suddenly changes its nature, and becomes sexual. At which point, our judeo-xtian nightmare insists that now this neglect is for their own good.
I’m too compulsively responsible to have ever become a full blown Incel. It never would have occurred to me to blame anyone but myself for that bottomless pit of existential loneliness. But I was just as fucked up, just as angry, and just as toxic before I hit puberty, as I was after. Society didn’t hold me responsible for it then, it wasn’t until the pain became sexual that it was suddenly all my fault.
I see the Incel movement as a variation of the same fucked up dynamic that creates white supremacists. Yet it doesn’t matter how richly deserving of scorn these shitheads are, we have got to change the way society operates if we want less of this nonsense in the future.
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I was weird as a kid/teen for mostly socializing online. Now that I’m a FB-less adult, I’m weird for not socializing online. I just can’t win!
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-1. You’re not owed anything. Sorry.
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It’s entirely context dependent. When we go to Appalachia to visit my mother-in-law, I get called “hon” or “honey” by women all the time (waitresses, the cashier at Kroger’s, etc.). It’s roughly equivalent to what bud, buddy, dude or bro would if I used those talking to another man. (I usually don’t, though.)
However, I’m a middle-aged white guy. I am not going to call anyone “hon” or “honey” (with the possible exception of my wife). Men would think I’m insulting them, and women would think I’m patronizing them.
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I read the film synopsis, we have been down this hole several times. The same question is asked.
how do we identify and confront the reality of online radicalization, without compromising our right to free speech?
Online radicalization has nothing to do with free speech. Free Speech is just the shield these bigots hide behind while they radicalize others. The research shows that shutting down these forums is effective at reducting Hate Speech.
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