Thank you, though I actually got the name from a foster’s home for imaginary friend episode, and it just stuck. I know I don’t know everything or even a lot on this whole event, but talking about it in a constructive light is better than devolving into bigotry. I’m here for opposition, hopefully informed and well thought out opposition, but opposition.
There’s an even greater scandal out there - look, just 3 weeks ago, the NEW YORK TIMES(!) horribly oppressed not only their entire audience .- no, they horribly oppressed every single human being over the age of 18!
The Death of Adulthood in American Culture
But seriously: You are a petulant child. You don’t know what “oppression” means, and you have the reading comprehension of a kindergartner.
Now now. You’re feeding it.
I know, man. I have a problem
Considering Intel’s spokesperson said they “take feedback from our customers very seriously”, I thought I well I’m an Intel customer too, so I should express my disappointment in their actions via their customer contact form. Who knows? Maybe I won’t be the only one to point this out to them directly, and they may notice how backward they look for reacting to a bunch of bullies.
I guess to go further on my last post: the fact that you’re trying to make this both about Zoe and about journalistic integrity gives the lie to your premise.
If this was about journalistic integrity, the whole feminist argument thing is irrelevant to your point and all you have to do is stand on the journalistic integrity bits - which I won’t disagree with. I can say that the Zoe thing sounds weird or even that maybe there needs to be more investigation done without then backing the whole GamersGate thing, which was absolutely involved with a group of people who are part of the vitriolic minority attacking ‘feminist’ critics. I refuse to stand with ANY movement that doesn’t vocally reject such childish tactics, and if a new thing starts up and actually focuses on integrity, like DoritoGate, then I’ll gladly stick with it.
Ok man, we can talk, I’m here to talk. Did you read any of the, what, 20 articles that came out calling gamers an outdated term? That is an attack on anyone who take pride in being a gamer. And bring up men is stupid. Didn’t I just disregard the woman angle? A gamer is varying ages, any sex, any orientation, and even any genre interest. If you identify yourself as a gamer, I’m of the opinion that you are one. So it is an insult to all people based on his or her hobby. What I was talking about in the quote this time is a collection of websites deeming its fine to not cretic, but disown their community. Do you think that is fine to do, and should receive no criticism?
[quote=“falcon2001, post:28, topic:42121, full:true”]
I guess to go further on my last post: the fact that you’re trying to make this both about Zoe and about journalistic integrity gives the lie to your premise. [/quote]
They’re not “trying” to make it about both, it is about both Zoe’s insidious influence and the “journalists” who carry her water. Sorry it’s lasted a month, this would’ve been over in hours if the idiots at the sites had apologized for their intransigence, but they dug in and they’re now facing the consequences. It’s funny what months and months of attacking gamers who don’t care about your imbecilic political positions will result in.
I can refer to only one (I don’t read everything on the internet, but I do tend to read stuff related to controversial subjects), which was on Kotaku, and you’re missing the point of those articles hugely - to the point where if you feel like they were insulting, you must have only read the title and gone no further.
The point of this is that the concept of gamer being a male-dominated feedback loop where the target audience of video games was white males, age 16-28, is dying because the audience has spread further and further out and is far more inclusive. NOT because those people are immature, or terrible, or GOOD RIDDANCE (although there’s certainly some inflammatory people on tumblr saying that because tumblr lol) - none of the major articles made claims like that.
I am literally that demographic - I spent my entire life playing video games from a super young age. I am white as hell, I am 100% male. I have enjoyed that I could basically identify with every main character in every video game that I’ve played. There’s a part of me that’s kind of sad that I’m no longer the core demographic of many things I used to enjoy (I do almost no mobile gaming), but I recognize that’s a selfish way to think and I don’t let it impact my decisions.
Edit: I specifically did not mention the RPS article because it didn’t say anything about ‘gamers being dead’.
Intel appeals to gamers correct? Or at least they are their main buyers. Also if you didn’t know, gamers that build computers can be very loyal to these companies. Why would intel stand with a group, publication, whatever that open insulted their core base. They would not. And I’d assume you wouldn’t either. For now intel is just backing off, which is smart. I knew they would not openly share sentiments with GamerGate, but showing that they would not sit idle while some or any of its base was being devalued by a entity intel advertises on. This literally just being a smart onlooker, and backing off from a time bomb.
Oh okay you’re not sarcastic.
I only read the Kotaku and RPS reports and responses and didn’t find anything particularly damning on those. I am absolutely open to the idea that relationships with developers/etc should be announced, but at least in those cases the ‘positive press’ was really minor. A single sentence on RPS during a roundup, and I think Kotaku had another editor write an article on Depression Quest at one point, but it wasn’t the person Zoe was in a relationship of any kind with and it was before they started seeing each other by quite a few months from what I saw.
To me, I guess that’s the part that makes it hard for me to believe this is really about integrity. Stuff like DoritoGate was pretty blatant, but this seems to be summed up as ‘hey a couple people said nice things about this game’, and that seems to be it. Even if you assume that the worst occurred, the positive impact to Depression Quest and Zoe is incredibly minimal compared to other scandals in the past.
See, it’s shit like this why people outside your echo chamber laugh at you. You’re nothing more than ordinary conspiracy theorists, and you employ all the classic tricks of the trade: Anomaly hunting, quote mining,gish gallops, false flag accusations.
Zoe’s influence in the gaming industry is virtually nonexistent, and those gaming sites didn’t “dig their heels in”. They responded to the bullshit accusations - it’s just that you gators didn’t like those responses.
Her insidious influence allowed for the most terrible of things to pass: a world where a blog writer mentioned her offhandedly and said her game was kind of neat.
As a straight, white, male gamer, I was not at all insulted by Gamasutra’s articles. I suspect I’m not the only one who feels ashamed at the behaviour of those who strive to protect their privilege within the gaming community.
Please try not to high road people, because then it is much more difficult to have a sensible discussion. To be honest, I’ve been drifting from game because of school starting and having a real apathy for what was coming out. Only games I played recently is telltale games and the last of us. Only game I still play with much excitement is super smash bros, and I play competitively. So I really don’t have much of a stake in keeping games like they’ve been according to you. I would acturally very much enjoy creative games coming out like journey that are really pushing what games are. I’m contemplating joining the industry for scriptwriting. I have a very real stake in how games develop. So what I do not like about I’ve heard in some people against GamerGate is that more of the same is what they want. I believe that the industry is growing organiclly,and when the interests for good characters that happen to be female arise, it is not artificial or forced. I love how realistic Clementines dialoge is in the walking dead. And the last of us was a big gender equivalent game. It was boiled down to people only being survivors. This is my personal thought: I don’t care about race, age, religion, kinda genre, or gender of a character. I want developers to have the freedom to do what they want, and fully explore every avenue. Good games with woman will come as game creator’s focus shifts in a direction where it would be complimentary to the story, or what they are setting out to do. I don’t like how indie developers are being inhibited in what they can make because of fear of being blacklisted, doxxed, or whatever else possible. I talk about more after your next comment. Just want to make sure we are on same page.
Sorry I had to make another acc. I really want to continue this discussion.
Dude, you really, really have no reading comprehension skills, and i don’t even speak your language natively. NONE of those pieces were an insult to the gamer, but a celebration that that sort of obsessive self identification is no longer needed. Games are now more encompassing, even the walking simulators everyone hates. Games can now have different conversations. You are a child. Go away.
Err, indie devs are not being blacklisted, doxxed, or anything else, except when they start speaking out as pro-feminist. Do you have any examples of devs making the game they want and being doxxed or blacklisted (especially if they didn’t announce this in a vitriolic ‘oh we don’t have women in our game because they’re weak lol’ way) - I absolutely believe that everyone should be able to make the game they want, but it’s also important to understand your audience and understand that audience tastes have changed as the audience grows.
And I’m not trying to high road this: it is a very specific and natural thing to feel disappointed when you’re no longer the target of something, and it is also a mature and normal thing to understand the bigger picture. A young child will be upset that he has to share; a teenager will understand that sharing is beneficial to everyone, etc. If we call that ‘highroading’ then I don’t think we can have a beneficial discussion about this, because the core ideas that a lot of the very vitriolic, hateful members of the community that built up much of gamersgate have are fundamentally selfish ones, and if I can’t call them that, then I can’t really talk about them.
The idea that ‘games should be about white males and any criticism of this is bad’ is absolutely and fundamentally a selfish statement, just to be plainer.
Wow, those are tea party levels of projection.
Man, I just love how the #gg tag literally forces people to join Boing Boing just to make their perfectly-valid-not-at-all-misogynistic-totally-legitimate-concerns-about-gaming-journalism-and-not-being-sexist-douchcanoes-points.
And by, love, I mean it depresses the fuck out of me.
There is a possibility that people are in the middle camp here and see a lot of this as personal attacks on them and aren’t actually mysoginst, just mistaken - I certainly was for a while and over time I changed my opinion on it once I read more and more about it and changed my mind on how criticism works. I think it’s valuable to engage and honestly while Mac’s reading skills aren’t amazing he’s at least not flaming or swearing or anything and I’m happy to keep chatting with him.