Doing the right thing is not a zero-sum game.
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[quote=âMissy_Pants, post:39, topic:60178, full:trueâ]
Glad to hear that the well being of half the population of the planet is not a worthy cause in your eyes, thanks so much!
Iâm sure those other âworthyâ causes will be so much the better for all your aid.
[/quote]Nice way to both make unfounded assumptions and put words into my mouth. Also, your use of quotes around âworthyâ implies that you consider any other cause I find of interest is not truly worthy - such as victims of police abuse, racism, the imbalance of rich vs. poor in the legal system, victims of domestic abuse, victims of bullying in schools, etc.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:38, topic:60178, full:trueâ]Sounds fun, care to identify any one of these causes that is so unified one side to the other, that there is no debate or dissent within? [/quote]Debate and dissent are fine. But being directly insulted and abused when commenting on it is neither.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:38, topic:60178, full:trueâ]Or which one finds itself benefits the most from people who help for the kudos?[/quote]âThe kudosâ as you put it are hardly necessary for people to help a cause, but positive reinforcement is definitely going to make those who do help more likely to come back. Thatâs just a basic fact of human nature, and ignoring that fact does not help the cause at all.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:38, topic:60178, full:trueâ]Read back and ask yourself if that attitude might make you into not much of an ally?[/quote]My comment wasnât about the effect on me personally, but on people trying to help in general. But, for the sake of argument, letâs just assume that it is: If Iâm currently a âweakâ ally, then why are you attempting to push me away rather than encouraging me to become a âstrongâ ally? Are you not aware that the typical response to being excluded from a group is resentment towards that group? How does it help a cause to turn potential allies into potential enemies?
[quote=âchenille, post:40, topic:60178, full:trueâ]If there were other causes that are truly just as important, and you think you can help them without antagonizing anyone, why would I want to stop you from focusing on them?[/quote]Your dismissive attitude that no other causes can be âtruly just as importantâ serves only to alienate those who believe in other causes. How about you go try that attitude out in Charleston right now and see how well it goes over?
[quote=ânemomeno, post:41, topic:60178, full:trueâ]Doing the right thing is not a zero-sum game.[/quote]No, but when there are multiple right things to do, and a finite number of hours to devote to them, it becomes a zero-sum game between the multiple causes.
[quote=âchenille, post:40, topic:60178, full:trueâ]And you wonât become helpful if you then try to make things about how you think people should respond, which is one of the classic derails. Itâs nice to have number to effect change, but not if they hijack it.[/quote]Actually, it wasnât me who derailed this conversation in the first place - that would be AcerPlatanoides flat-out calling me a misogynist, and Missy_Pants saying I have a lack of empathy, based on a single post where I attempted to point out that the John Oliver pieceâs focus was a bit muddled. After that it devolved further when those who tried to point out that insulting and belittling people isnât the best way to go about things were repeatedly insulted, told that they were ânot really alliesâ, and heavily implied that they were actually misogynists who were just pretending not to be.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:32, topic:60178â]
Did Oliver suggest that misogyny is the sole motivation for online bullying/etc? I didnât see that, maybe I missed it? If he didnât do that, it isnât confusing.
[/quote]Well, the funny thing is that thatâs what I was trying to point out in my initial comment that started this whole off-topic shitstorm. He never suggested that it was, and the framing of the story is one of generic, rather than gender-specific, harm. However, it apparently was confusing, since every other comment in this entire discussion is treating it as if misogyny was the entire point of the piece.
Ha!.. and yet you just accused me of putting words in your mouth⌠funny that.
I am very careful with my words, I said âpeopleâ in my empathy comment, I did not use your name at all. But hey, if you think the shoe fits, feel free to wear it.
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At this point, Imma just gonna go for <a href=âhttp://bbs.boingboing.net/t/bb-bbs-comment-bingo/52548"target=â_blank">BB Bingo:
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[quote=âMissy_Pants, post:43, topic:60178, full:trueâ]
[quote=âTheRizz, post:42, topic:60178â]
Missy_Pants saying I have a lack of empathy
[/quote]I am very careful with my words, I said âpeopleâ in my empathy comment, I did not use your name at all.[/quote]My apologies, I had thought your comment on lack of empathy had been in direct response to AcerPlatanoidesâs comment that was talking specifically about me. Upon review I see that it was not.
It doesnât really take much time or energy to just acknowledge the misogynist aspects of revenge porn/internet threats or see why there are uniquely difficult issues women face in dealing with these rather than dismissing them. You donât need to go volunteering you time canvassing, waste time on the Internet arguing about it, or launch a crusade.
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Then your initial comment was -dead wrong-. Did you watch the video?
Oliver began the piece with 2 minutes of generic internet humour, at 2:15 or so the piece began itâs main thrust. With this âIâm not talking about everyday internet abuse, Iâm talking about death threats⌠particularly against womenâ Or some such, Iâm sorry I let my stenographer go home early, try not to get hung up on that not being a precise quote, Iâm certain youâll be tempted.
So thatâs at 2:15 or so, from their the piece continues on about that, covering Gamergate, revenge porn and other bullshit that âspecifically targets womenâ just like Oliver said. And then itâs over.
So what are you saying, that because only 14 of the 16 minutes were about misogyny, that some disservice has been done a white penis somewhere?
I donât like to do it but Iâm calling trolley on you/your claim, or because you didnât watch the video. Is that what happened? You went to Youtube, saw that Beesheezzas title differed from Oliverâs and ran back here without watching it?
Explain your trolley.
Edit. Also go back to my original reply to you, somehow you glazed over it.
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[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:47, topic:60178, full:trueâ]
Then your initial comment was -dead wrong-. Did you watch the video?
[âŚ]
I donât like to do it but Iâm calling troll on your claim, or because you didnât watch the video. Is that what happened? You went to Youtube, saw that Beesheezzas title differed from Oliverâs and ran back here without watching it?[/quote]Not trolling, and I did watch the video, as it aired, on Sunday night. Until about 5 minutes ago I hadnât even gone to YouTube to look at it, so had no idea what they titled it.
Basically, when watching it, I paid a bit more attention to the first two minutes of the piece, which traditionally are used to frame the narrative in general, instead of focusing on a few lines about 1/6 of the way into the video. The rest of the video felt like it was talking about internet bullying/harassment/etc. in general, although it did have women as the focus of the examples - I assumed because theyâre both more prevalent, and typically more extreme examples.
Letâs look at this: Framing and introduction are generic and not about misogyny. A few sentences a few minutes in bring the focus to women, but felt more like an introduction to the following example instead of a change in the focus of the piece. The overall feel of most of his report was about generic harassment/threat/terror tactics, not gender-specific ones (at least, thatâs how I took it). He did punctuate his commentary with âof womenâ occasionally, but it was hardly omnipresent.
So, the piece starts off generic, and the narrative mostly follows talk about harassment/etc. in general, but occasionally brings the focus to women. How is my comment that the piece lacked focus of intent contradicted by that? How is my comment that some of his examples felt less gender-based and more generic contradicted by that?
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:47, topic:60178â]
Edit. Also go back to my original reply to you, somehow you glazed over it.
[/quote]Iâm not positive which one, but Iâll assume itâs this one:
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:32, topic:60178â]
Seems like youâre demanding a separation of means and motive, but why is that at all necessary when the discussion on motive merely includes some discussion of means?
Your requirement hamstrings or invalidates most discussions. Where is the net benefit? Why is it preferable at all to discuss misogyny without touching on itâs manifestations? Sounds like a bad deal.
[/quote]Itâs not, itâs just a matter of focus, and the pieces focus being very muddled. It meandered from generic to misogyny-centric to more generic and back again throughout the piece, leading me to feel that the misogyny was being used to illustrate the harassment rather than the other way around. My comment on it was that the lack of focus undermined the piece in general, as itâs hard to decide what to focus on - is it the misogyny, or the online harassment? It feels like he tried to focus on both, thus not giving enough focus to either. The lack of that focus on one issue (either of which could have worked) lessened the impact of the piece overall.
i.e. I feel it should have focused on the misogyny and used the online harassment to illustrate it, or it should have focused on the online harassment and used the misogyny illustrate that. It shouldnât have floundered back and forth doing both.
So you completely glazed over that the first mention of harrassment was at 2 minutes, as part of a statement that specifically stated that he was not talking about generic harassment but was specifically talking about the harassment that women face. And while you noticed that women were a part of the rest of it, you failed to notice that every interviewee was a woman, that every subject was specific to women being harassed, how, and why, that no examples of men being harassed or even people of colour, but⌠you still felt it wasnât about what Oliver specifically, categorically stated that it was about,
And now youâre diggin in. going Full GG and demanding that it wasnât, or rahter, that you donât feeeeel it was about what it was specifically stated to be about without deviation.
Sadly, given your exceptionally low cognitive and comprehension abilities as demonstrated, I have to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you couldnât use the scroll bar to determine which of my replies to you was the first one.
You arenât being insulted. This is what youâve demonstrated.
To your response to my query I can only note that you continue to rely on how you feel rather than utilizing basic critical thinking. Thus I must disengage and recommend you to the dragon as a deliberate trolley attempting & succeeding at derailing a thread in the tradition of GG everywhere.
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I still havenât read all the case studies, but I think K. Anne Pyburn argues that class hierarchies often predate gender hierarchies. And that Fred Engels and the radfems were wrong.
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[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:49, topic:60178, full:trueâ]And now youâre diggin in. going Full GG and demanding that it wasnât, or rahter, that you donât feeeeel it was about what it was specifically stated to be about without deviation.[/quote]Thatâs right, twist those words. All Iâve said was that I didnât feel he was as clear as he could have been. In retrospect it is what it is, but the start and framing were vague enough that it was missed. I donât see how thatâs âgoing Full GGâ or whatever other bullshit you want to sling here - Iâm not denying anything about the stories, Iâm not saying these people deserve anything they got, and Iâm not even saying that Oliverâs report wasnât about that. Iâm only saying that upon the initial viewing, it wasnât as clear as it could be, and some of the parts felt more like generic anti-harassment than specific anti-misogynist commentary.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:49, topic:60178, full:trueâ][quote=âTheRizz, post:48, topic:60178â]
Iâm not positive which one, but Iâll assume itâs this one:
[/quote]Sadly, given your exceptionally low cognitive and comprehension abilities as demonstrated, I have to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you couldnât use the scroll bar to determine which of my replies to you was the first one.[/quote]Thatâs funny, because I did pick the first post you made in the topic. Rather than actually responding to what Iâve said using your obviously superior âcognitive and comprehension abilitiesâ, you feel the need to hurl insults insteadâŚ
Youâre a complete asshole. You arenât being insulted. This is what youâve demonstrated.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:49, topic:60178, full:trueâ]To your response to my query I can only note that you continue to rely on how you feel rather than utilizing basic critical thinking.[/quote]Oh, youâve stuck your response down here under your Iâm-swear-Iâm-not-insulting-you-even-though-I-really-am tirade.
Using the wording âI feel thatâ is not mutually exclusive to critical thinking, especially when youâre talking about what is expressly an opinion. It is superfluous, yes, but sometimes advisable when conversing with those who refuse to understand that statements of opinion are, in fact, statements of opinion, without adding extra verbal cues to the sentence.
[quote=âFunkDaddy, post:49, topic:60178, full:trueâ]Thus I must disengage and recommend you to the dragon as a deliberate trolley attempting & succeeding at derailing a thread in the tradition of GG everywhere.
[/quote]Says the biggest fucking trolley in the thread. Iâve attempted to steer it back on topic. You could have simply disagreed with my point and moved on, but instead you have responded to that with repeated insults and twisting of my words and meaning.
You can disagree with my perception being that of the majority, and that is fine. You can disagree with me about the intended message, or the clarity of that message, and that is fine. However, I will not allow you to dismiss my comments offhand by insulting my intelligence, or ascribe to me bigotries that I do not possess.
I am through with you, sir.
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Why, thank you. I needed that.
Itâs more of a beige, though.
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Actually ârevenge pornâ type abuse, specifically of teenage boys, is a big enough problem that my wife just had to spend ages covering the topic in her child protection training yesterday. It seems to be a form of organised crime that also involves blackmail and extortion, which is possibly why you donât hear so much about it.
Revenge porn focused on teenage boys as opposed to teenage girls? I donât know who your wife is or why she had to spend ages covering such a thing, especially if â[people] donât hear so much about it.â Sounds a touch like the handwringing about voter fraud in America. Not saying the abuse you mention doesnât happen, but according to a study mentioned here,
Itâs in the distribution of these images that boys and girlsâ behavior begins to diverge. When an explicit photograph hits their phones, the teen boys in the study were almost twice as likely as the teen girls to have forwarded it beyond its intended audience. And boys were much more likely than girls to have received one of these errant sexts from an oversharing peer.
Again, Iâm sure there are teenage boys out there who have been shamed, or maybe even extorted, via pornographic images (whether taken by them or others), but youâve got to do better than, âmy wife taught a course focused on child protection.â
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Fair enough, but then one must also wonder why youâve been wasting some of those precious âdevote-to-good-deedsâ hours here on an extended argument over your being personally insulted out of helping a cause, instead of directly going over to help one of those other worthy causes. I mean, do you really think youâre going to change how people as a whole tend to behave when theyâre angry and passionate about an issue? Youâd probably have more luck hunting down those other people who you feel are being driven away, hugging them tightly and softly whispering, âShhhh, I still love you for your mild-but-not-perfect support on this issue⌠donât turn away from us. Letâs make it work.â
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Mod note: stay on topic and the topic isnât you.
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At the risk of derailing⌠I havenât seen someone put their head so precisely in a bear trap since⌠Well since me 
The engineer in me wants to separate social problems and test them one by one. The humanist in me has been repeatedly reinforced that it is drastically more messy than that IRL.
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I just wanted to see how many squares I could get with a single gif while simultaneously expressing my amusement at the usual devolution of a thread about misogyny into #notallmen and #perfectistheenemyofgood. 
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