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The SPLC and ADL, both organisations that have studied the phenomenon in depth, would disagree with you, boldface or not. They identify different and distinct sub-groups, not all of which necessarily subscribe to white supremacy or anti-Semitism.
To give one example from an alt-right sub-culture, incels and MRAs and Gamergaters are not necessarily also white supremacists – although a lot of them tend to buy into that garbage they can be just as toxic in their misogyny without it.
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Here is the SPLC’s definition of alt-right:
The Alternative Right, commonly known as the “alt-right,” is a set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals whose core belief is that “white identity” is under attack by multicultural forces using “political correctness” and “social justice” to undermine white people and “their” civilization.
Incels have a crazy fanatic culture, as demonstrated by this video I found yesterday;
But there’s nothing in particular about the incels that make them some kind of white supremacist group. Now, note: I don’t take the SPLC for a strand of credibility. They don’t deserve credibility.
The SPLC has since expanded that definition, acknowledging that there are many pathways into the alt-right:
Also, I’m sorry, but if your criticism of the SPLC is based on a video from Dennis Prager, himself a right-wing religious ultra-nationalist, I can’t take it seriously. Nor do I take seriously the idea of incels and their cousins in the misogynist blogoshere not being a part of the alt-right, openly embracing its over-arching concept of dark forces conspiring to keep men down with (((alien and non-Western))) ideas.
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The evidence is Prima Facie. He chooses to collect over a million a year when he needn’t do so. Just because he’s purportedly saving for a very luxurious retirement doesn’t mean he’s not motivated by that money.
No matter how many times you quote yourself- you’re not proving your assertion by mere repetition.
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I don’t blame him for that part. Without identifying and pandering to an audience when the time is ripe, his simplistic and obvious and recycled “rules for life” wouldn’t attract much attention.
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Dude, that article is about, as its title says, pathways to the alt-right – as in some ways people end up becoming alt-right. I don’t see a revised definition anywhere in there.
The evidence is Prima Facie. He chooses to collect over a million a year when he needn’t do so. Just because he’s purportedly saving for a very luxurious retirement doesn’t mean he’s not motivated by that money.
More evidence-less conspiracies. As we’ve already seen, JP could have retired if he wanted to by now, yet he continues working 16 hours a day and living in his nice little house. JP wont have a luxurious retirement, plain and simple. The evidence so starkly contradicts you that it’s simply incredible that you haven’t given up now, repeating the discredit leftist conspiracy that JP is doing it for the money.
When asked what he’s going to do with the money, JP said that he wants to start an online university, including a timeline that allows you to zoom in to any point in history and have lectures available from leading specialists that can explain the period. What JP will do with the money is his own decision at this point, and there’s no doubt he’s shown he’s capable of handling it. One of the first thing he did with the money is rent expensive theatres to deliver his psychological lectures on the Bible series, which was quite costly and before he became as famous as he was now (i.e. pre-Cathy Newman). Indeed, it must be quite costly for JP to be renting all those lecture theatres to speak (though he probably made a return since they all get sold out).
Kathy obviously would never even imagine applying her own logic to the people she likes. Elizabeth Warren, the most famous “progressive” behind Bernie Sanders has a net worth of between 3.7 - 10 million! She must be doing it for the money!
@gracchus decided to jump on Kathy’s conspiracy bandwagon;
I don’t blame him for that part. Without identifying and pandering to an audience when the time is ripe, his simplistic and obvious and recycled “rules for life” wouldn’t attract much attention.
Except that makes no sense. The reason why they attract so much attention is that they’re so profound, as anyone who isn’t hellbent on destroying JP knows. I’ve shown JP’s lectures of his book to some of my family who knew nothing about the political embroilment, and they were stunned by it. I have a leftist friend who thinks JP’s book is amazingly well written and profound as well. The only people who say this nonsense are people who can’t accept the fact that JP is the first to outline and promote an entire articulated worldview that has no use for leftism. It’s a deep threat to them that they can’t accept – that’s why a few leftist journalists have worked so hard on trying to destroy him. And they’ve failed.
Perhaps if you read beyond the headline (similar to how I took the time to watch that Prager video for a bit before its fallacies and disconnect from reality became clear) you’d see that the SPLC discusses how those seduced into the alt-right continue to focus on their hobbyhorses and don’t necessarily embrace white supremacy.
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I don’t blame him either. But it’s absurd to say there’s no monetary intent.
And laughable to quote ones own unsubstantiated statement in an argument from authority.
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I did read beyond the headline. The article doesn’t say that those ideologies are themselves alt-right ideologies. It just says how different hobbies and ideas can cause people to eventually take the alt-right bandwagon. And the PragerU video has no fallacies. The SPLC is not credible in the least.
@KathyPartdeux once again says, without evidence that JP is doing it for the money, despite being shown that JP could have bought a mansion by now but didn’t, and in fact continues to live in his nice little house working 16 hours a day. Calling this “unsubstantiated” is the absurd of the absurd. “Argument from authority” is even less coherent.
TL;DR
Also I make it habit to ignore sealions.
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How so? Neither of us are claiming there’s a conspiracy. I just see a charlatan (one I’d agree has a superficially compelling lecture and writing style) who’s found his popular culture niche and a differentiating brand identity after years of being an obscure academic.
It says that these subgroups have incorporated their hobbyhorses into the alt-right and keep their focus on promoting them.
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Saying that because someone didn’t buy x (whatever - house, yacht, private jet, painting, first edition or bespoke clothing) isn’t evidence that there’s no monetary interest.
Hell - even if it were / how would you know what luxury items he’s bought?
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Sorry gracchus, but JP was never obscure in his actual field of psychology. His 9,700 citations tell a different story. His lecture style is not superficial, otherwise, you know, Harvard wouldn’t have given him the Levenson Teaching Prize and the University of Toronto wouldn’t have named him one of the three life changing teachers. Gracchus, you just haven’t one clue about JP and his intellectual message. You are probably just not happy that you, personally, cannot reach his level. All you leftists can do is attack JP and get flooded by my evidence that everything you say is wrong. Just admit it, the ‘intellectual dark web’ is right, and there’s no stopping us. Just read through this thread, I haven’t let one real criticism of JP survive. That’s because it’s so easy to refute them all, and for one reason. You guys can’t actually address JP’s theories, contend with his logic. So you throw ad hominems and repeat leftist tropes about him. That’s the easiest kind of debate I can ask for. The reason why you don’t really want to get into the thick of JP’s ideas because you, and every other leftist against JP, doesn’t want to end up like Cathy Newman or Ari Feldman or Michael Dyson.
@KathyPartdeux OF COOOOOOURSE there’s a monetary interest. JP has a family to feed, a house to pay for, food he needs to buy and planes he needs to travel with to deliver his lectures. That’s the point of having a job. You know, to be able to pay lifes bills. But you’re idea that he’s doing it “FOR THE MONEY” is absurd, since JP put his job on the line for speaking out against all this. You know there have been 2 petitions from the faculty at the University of Toronto that tried to get JP fired (all the signatures were of course from gender studies type ‘teachers’)? You know that before JP ever started crowdfunding, he had his research grant denied for the first time after opposing Bill C-16?
Again, the logic applies. “ELIZABETH WARRN IS WORTH UP TO 10 MILLION DOLLARS, THEREFORE SHE IS DOING IT FOR THE MONEY!” – fallacious argument, non sequitur fallacy. The argument about JP is equally a non-sequitur. Once more, “they have money and I don’t!” isn’t an argument that JP is doing anything for the money. Once again, where is your evidence JP is doing it for the money? Why is he still working 16 hours a day? Do you really believe he’s doing it for the money, or are you just repeating a leftist trope about JP?
You’ the one who made the original statement regarding his intent. The burden of convincing proof lies on you.
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How do you know he’s working 16 hrs a day? Just because he says so?
(I don’t imagine you follow him around all day in person. Though I can easily imagine that you’d love to that.)
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Nope. I was refuting a leftist claim. I’ll have to tell you the fact of the matter. Leftists accused JP of doing it for the money, several times in fact before I came along here. So I refuted it. Again, if you want to claim that JP is doing it for the money, the burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, videos like these refute the idea wholesale:
Another question: If JP was doing it for the money, why is almost all his content online for free? All JP’s lectures are free online. JP has made almost all his academic research free online. JP has even released his book Maps of Meaning online for free here. So if JP was doing it for the money, why is all this stuff of his … just free? When he can make people … pay for it? There’s sooooo much evidence JP is honest that I can’t believe this is a question. The truth is, leftists are addressing not who JP is, but who they want JP to be.
How do you know he’s working 16 hrs a day? Just because he says so?
Sure, I believe him. Do you think he’s lying? Have you seen his lecture schedule on his website? He’s packed endlessly. His content production has been extraordinary. Have you seen all the books he’s already read in 2017 and 2018 alone? The guy is a productive beast.
Unsophisticated people assume that a financial windfall will result in conspicuous lifestyle inflation (which would be quite conspicuous if he upgraded his home in a city like Toronto). Whether Peterson cares about the money or not, he’s doing something with it to benefit himself and his family. I have no problem with that, but agree it’s silly for anyone to paint him as some hair-shirt prophet only looking to spread the gospel.
If he committed to donate 90% of his earnings to organisations actively combtting racism and right-wing populism to demonstrate his sincerity and the purity of his mission I’m sure most of us would happily ignore the issue of the money.
Peterson understands that giving away content still allows for plenty of other lucrative revenue streams from what’s known in fandom and now mainstream marketing as trufans: book sales, speaking fees, Patreon donations, social media ad dollars, and lobster-merch all combined can easily bring in a six-figure plus salary per year.
I didn’t say that. I said he was an obscure academic, as opposed to a public intellectual (e.g. Pinker, Hawking, Dawkins, Gould, etc. who are and were known outside academia for decades).
Along with your clear difficulties with reading comprehension, your appeals to authority and delivered truths continue to be unimpressive. I’ve had my fun, but I’m done with you for now.
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Sure, that’s fair. But what’s the relevance of this? And you go on to accuse me of “arguments from authority”. Amusing times, indeed.
If he committed to donate 90% of his earnings to organisations actively combtting racism and right-wing populism to demonstrate his sincerity and the purity of his mission I’m sure most of us would happily ignore the issue of the money.
AHAH LOL! Why not just ask him to donate a kidney? And as it is, JP’s work combats racism and right-wing populism more than any other leftist his managed, since JP’s classic liberalism is what’s winning. Michael Shermer now considers him a classic liberal too. As does Dave Rubin. JP is the first person in a long while to give me the consideration of identifying with some form of liberalism.
