Josh Duggar's wife installed anti-porn software on his computer, but Duggar installed anti-anti-porn software

yes-dear-betty

I keep saying this in every thread where it comes up… I think we’re starting to sound like a broken record on this issue… :unamused:

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The loud assholes get all the attention, as (sadly) usual.

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The religious right in the US has always loudly proclaimed themselves to be the arbiters of both morality and the definition of Christianity, and the US mainstream didn’t really challenge that for a long time. But I think, increasingly, the mask is off - the number of evangelicals is shrinking, and the gulf between their values and mainstream values has increased (and been made more obvious), and they’ve been so willing to completely debase their supposed values for people like Trump that it’s clear that they don’t actually care about almost anything they claim to. It’s increasingly clear that they’re just a toxic, reactionary, authoritarian, patriarchal, racist culture.

I remember in the '80s and '90s, when the Christian right would declare something as being “anti-Christian,” the mainstream media would respond as if it were true (even when it was patently absurd, like when a tv show about a Christian minister was so labeled, despite being made by Christians and being explicitly about faith - just not the evangelical version of faith). That doesn’t seem to be remotely true anymore, thankfully.

American conservative white evangelicals worked really hard - were pretty successful - for a number of decades turning themselves into the arbiters of what “Christianity” was. Plus, a lot of the media went along with it, so it’s understandable that many people are still confused by that.

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Yes. That doesn’t mean we should let them continue to do so. I’d much rather work alongside anyone who is prepared to work to improve our society and make it more humane, not just reject people because their world view isn’t a cookie cutter version of mine.

And yet, @the_borderer, myself, and a few others here harp on this distinction EVERY SINGLE TIME this issue comes up, and we still manage to get the same unhelpful new atheist talking points. I’m sure I’ve probably alienated and pissed off some people that I really like and respect, but doing the exact same thing the Christian right does is not remotely helpful.

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It’s much worse on /r/all on reddit, and infinitely worse on edgelord neckbeard havens like 4chan and their ilk.

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I value that you do this. It needs to be said, louder and more often. People need to understand this. People need to hear this.

But I mean this in the nicest and most loving way possible: You and the borderer and other people like you and me saying this are not enough.

We need leaders in the church willing to call them out. We need the United Methodist Council, the Pope, the Archbishop of the Lutherans, trusted religious officials and leaders from all the other branches to call them out as evil and wrong and inconsistent with the words of Christ.

Instead, the Evangelicals are defining what Christianity is in the public view, and many, many of these other churches are not challenging it, in their services or in their public words and works. Unchallenged, it becomes the policy of all Christians. Unchallenged because the perception of what a Christian is has been shaped by the evangelicals for so long that if a minister told them what it was really about - love, kindness, grace, mercy- most of the congregation would walk out. Unchallenged because they are afraid of offending people. Unchallenged because they are afraid of loosing.

This is why I am no longer a practicing Christian. I don’t just want a minister who won’t scream transphobic statements from the pulpit, I need one who will scream from the pulpit that transphobia is wrong. I don’t just want a minister who won’t scream homophobic slurs from the pulpit, I need one who will scream that homophobia is wrong and support LGBT+ people. I don’t just need a minister who won’t scream racist screeds from the pulpit, but one who will scream that racism is bad, that Black Lives Matter, that police brutality is wrong, that systematic racism is a thing and needs to be ended, that it is the responsibility for everyone to take care of everyone else, that “socialism” is the Christian way of life and fascism sure as hell isn’t, that if you have hatred of any kind in your heart you are not a Christian.

It seems like the only people willing to make a stand on these issues are the ones on the wrong side of the issue.

That’s why I left the church. My church wasn’t bad. But I was tired of being a “good German” who was good as long as I hid who I was from the people who were supposed to be my friends. That was my experience, yours is likely different.

But I’m not unique. Go to any Pagan worship service; you’ll find plenty of people who had that experience too.

For the record: the Christian religion is valid and beautiful. Too bad almost no one practices it.

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I’d heard of it, but hadn’t paid any attention, around 1984.

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I’m sorry as the overall story isn’t funny at all but I nonetheless snorted at “holy-roller peodophile”.

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Seriously, the idea of top 5 worst of the worst is making me feel traumatized just getting cognitively near to what that might entail.

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Modern equivalent of the Trace Buster Buster? Trace Buster Buster - YouTube

It’s not that ministers aren’t calling it out. It’s that the media gives them little to no traction. It’s that “ministers” like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson get more airtime to define Christianity than do the Rev. Jennifer Butlers of the world.

My very conservative father became “born again” after hearing a Presbyterian minister give a fiery anti-war speech in 2004. It changed him. It’s not my faith, but I’m glad for him.

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I expect better of people here. Not so much on reddit or 4chan. I’m not there for a reason.

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okayjlaw

No, it’s clear that my view is an unpopular one. Which, as always, is disappointing. But you can’t win them all, right?

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I will say this: all the Unitarians I know (including many in my extended family) are awesome, progressive people.

My father’s funeral was held at a Unitarian church and I remember driving up to it and seeing the prominent Black Lives Matter (the congregation is mostly white) and “No Person Is Illegal. Refugees Welcome” signs and thinking, “This is a church?”

So, yeah, Christianity is not all bad.

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Unitarianism isn’t Christianity. It isn’t even always theism.

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Who are we to say what is and isn’t Christianity?

We don’t consider ourselves to be Christian. We are of the liberal religious tradition and have no fixed scripture and dogma. Many of our members are atheist, Jewish, and other religions that are definitely not Christian.

EtA note that I said “we”.

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So, are my relatives wrong to call themselves Christians when they are, in fact, Unitarians? Or is it possible that different Unitarian churches have different ideas about that?

Wait, are you talking about Unitarian Universalism? Because that’s a separate thing from Unitarianism.

My relatives are adherents to this one: Unitarianism - Wikipedia
Not this one: Unitarian Universalism - Wikipedia

Just from the wiki pages it seems very hard to pull those apart.
Also my guess is that Christianists and other Evangelicals don’t consider Unitarians to be Christian, regardless of how they consider themselves.

Background on the movement if you’ve got an hour:

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