The Nazi Party existed for, say, 1930-1945. Mr. Trudeau’s foolishness adds up to perhaps five hours. Comparing Mr. Trudeau to a Nazi is an insult to booth him and Nazis.
Also, I do not have pure, empirical evidence that Mr. Trudeau was not motivated by malice, aside from the fact that he did not do so in the intervening years since his two errors, nor did he do anything at the time more calculated than foolishly trying to replicate cultural icons; at the same time, you also do not have pure, empirical evidence he was motivated by malice, so your suppositions and my suppositions erase each other. All we have is the evidence, and the evidence is only proof of bad faith intent by whoever had this pic and sat on it until riiiiight before an election.
@DeclanMcManus Here’s some pretty compelling evidence he is not a racist. Any guess what party the guy that asks the abhorrently racist question is going to vote for?
Right? It’s the whole mindset of racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, are just monsters who we can safely exclude outside of polite civilization that is a major part of the problem. These are more often than not, ordinary people, who don’t spend their days thinking up ways to bring back segregation and kill their neighbors who happen to be people of color. These are people, instead, who deploy racist assumptions casually and even without malice, but end up doing a good bit of harm with regards to maintaining the structure of white supremacy, because they do not see it as THEIR problem. They don’t see how pervasive it is, because it only manages to have a positive, invisible effect on their lives.
Black people being the but of jokes is a non-hostile opinion?
You don’t get to decide what others KNOW makes their daily lives harder.
Did you poll all of them? I’d guess that some Canadians would very much find this kind of casual racism a problem, since it speaks to larger issues that he might very well be willing to ignore, because he does not see them as important to address systemically. We have very much seen this in the Democratic party here in the states. Women are systemically being denied reproductive care because the democrats decided it was not an issue that mattered, because it’s just a “women’s issue”. They also decided that it was more important to go after the middle class, white, suburban vote by leaning into the “crime” issue that has exacerbated mass incarceration. They also decided that the rights of LBGQT were entirely secondary to other issues. It’s not just the right wingers ignoring issues of human rights (because guess what, all 3 categories of people you’re noting are actually human and are fully deserving of equal rights), it’s moderates who find it perfectly acceptable to compromise on the humanity of others.
That was not my point. And I agree that the tradition is racist. My point is that the individuals who have participated in the tradition over the years are not all racists. Far from it, in fact.
I’m not talking about torches and pitchforks, I’m criticising him for not making a solid, grownup, unequivocal apology for his having been exactly the kind of privileged jerk you describe so that the real, virulent bigots can’t use this incident as a cudgel. Instead of, you know, making lame excuses for him.
It is in this case. The PM not giving a clear, unequivocal apology for wearing blackface in 2001 actually means something to black people (and black voters), even if it seems like a minor thing to whites who’d rather handwave it away.
It remains a problem none-the-less. Trudeau could have made this go away by offering a proper apology, but he didn’t. Now the Conservatives are going to be harping on it for the rest of the campaign season.
There are women and PoC right here telling you that this is a problem. You just refuse to listen.
I was referring to gracchus’ hyperbolic and frequent wording.
I don’t get to decide what other KNOW makes their lives harder, but I can also be relatively assured that I can tell the difference between a real concern and easy spectacle.
It’s not just the right wingers ignoring issues of human rights (because guess what, all 3 categories of people you’re noting are actually human and are fully deserving of equal rights), it’s moderates who find it perfectly acceptable to compromise on the humanity of others.
At no point did I suggest that Women, PoC and LGBTQ humans were anything other than people deserving true equality and protection under the law; I was noting that their day-to-day may not consider this a tempest and in fact more of a teapot.
So the whole “it was a different time” thing can be framed by the date that somebody was publicly humiliated and forced to apologize for blackface, or an old photo of same, surfacing.
When was the first one? I’ve tried some google efforts, with unclear results; very recent cases keep filling up the page.
…it would have to be a fairly big story, if it was American, to also be well-covered in Canada…
I can’t see what is in another person’s heart. The better question is “are these people doing something that is racist?” The answer is clearly “yes,” just as it was for Trudeau.
Some people do racist things out of ignorance or intellectual laziness. However if someone continues to do something racist long after they have had an opportunity to know better then that shows a terrible lack of judgment and sensitivity at the least.
And having friends and/or family who happen to be POC does not in any way exempt someone from being racist or holding bigoted beliefs themselves.
Hell being a person of color doesn’t exempt anyone from being a bigot; for that matter.
Regarding el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz, historically he did make many incendiary statements about Whites, in direct response to the systemic and individualized racism that he endured, especially early on in his career with the Nation of Islam.
But at the end of his time, right before he was assassinated, el-Shabazz made his hajj to Mecca, where he met Muslim people from all different walks of life, and started to become more willing to let go of his old resentment and bitterness.
It’s too bad that we’ll never know how much more the man who was Malcolm X might have evolved had he not been shot down before his time.
But ya are, Blanche; ya are.
No skin off my nose though; I know better than to even waste my time.
BS. There’s nothing hyperbolic about the attitude I describe. White straight male brocialists have been dismissing the concerns of PoC and women and LGBTQ folks as minor distractions that can wait until the class struggle is solved, all the while proclaiming how “woke” they are, for a long time now.
You are refusing to listen to them; that you can’t see this is all the more evident in your insistent denials.
No. You can’t. You just don’t know that and you can’t know that. It’s not YOUR life. Full stop.
I did not assume you said that. I said that that’s what the moderate parties (in both here and in Canada) have been doing. You really should not take it so personally. I don’t know how you feel about these issues, I’m only replying to your assertions here.
And you don’t get to dictate which one they decide upon.
You do realize that there are both women and people of color here, right? Some who are in this very thread?
YES. He may not have intended it to be racist, but indeed, it was a racist act.
I think it’s important to understand the context, including that when NOI was founded (in the 30s), racism was the law of the land. Expecting oppressed people to regularly rise above violent structures that limit them at every turn is severely misunderstanding human nature. As Franz Fanon noted, the human psyche can only take so much abuse, before that old flight or fight instinct kicks in, and hard decisions must be made in how to respond to constant, ongoing oppression. That doesn’t excuse everything, but it makes it a bit clearer.
I mean people here are saying that, from our own lived experiences, or our observations or our study of history and the like, and because we actually listened to others. Nothing you said is particularly radical.
Why should he expect instant and unqualified forgiveness? Especially since we’ve already learned the first incident he apologized for wasn’t an isolated event?
Oh, well… forgiveness is automatic! He shouldn’t have even brought this whole thing up, just shrugged and said “boys will be boys” and moved on with his life!
Who taught you that malice is the only thing that makes something racist?
As a single, tiny example of the concept, if you’ve ever heard anyone say something like “Oops we forgot to invite any black people, well, they wouldn’t like it here anyway…” then you’ve heard something racist in someone with perfectly “nice” intentions.
To his credit, Trudeau is doing better with the 2.0 version of the apology, taking personal responsibility like he didn’t before. I just hope it isn’t too late.
During an event in Winnipeg, Trudeau said he did not understand at the time how profoundly offensive his actions were because he has lived with “layers of privilege.”
“What I did hurt them. Hurt people who shouldn’t have to face intolerance and discrimination because of their identity. This is something that I deeply, deeply regret,” he said.
“Darkening your face, regardless of the context of the circumstances, is always unacceptable because of the racist history of blackface. I should have understood that then, and I never should have done it.”
Trudeau said he never spoke about the incidents before now because he was “embarrassed,” adding that his past actions do not define the politician he has become.
[…]
He asked Canadians to forgive him for what he acknowledged was a “terrible mistake.”
“I have always acknowledged that I come from a place of privilege, but I now need to acknowledge that comes with a massive blind spot,” he said in Winnipeg.
“I have dedicated my leadership and my service to Canada to try and counter intolerance and racism everywhere I can, but this has been … a moment I’ve had to reflect on the fact that wanting to do good and wanting to do better simply isn’t good enough.”
Some of the commenters here who’ve been arguing that the blackface revelations were no big deal might want to read this version of the apology carefully, taking special note of the part about privilege creating blind spots.
Honestly politically I think this might not even be that bad for Trudeau. There’s a good chance that the more the Conservatives want to talk about racism the better it is for everyone but the Conservatives.
I can easily imagine the Liberals winning the election and then the pundits taking the lesson that, “Hey, blackface isn’t so bad!”
