Laugh at sovereign citizen antics in court

[lastchance]

Just running the numbers.

[L0ki]

@jerwin

Doesn’t “Comes now the plaintiff” feel like an incantation?

Well sure but if you’re in a Enochian magic system using Vancian magic isn’t going to get you anywhere.

[jerwin]

Or if your magic system divides sorcery and divine magic. What would a thaumaturge know about "prayers for relief "?

[VeronicaConnor]

@Brainspore

the steadfast belief that reciting some specific sequence of words will release them from the rule of law like a magical incantation

This is really the bizarre thing. The reaction they clearly all expect from courts and LEOs is for them to say, “Oh wow- you got me. You’re right, that gold fringe on the flag DOES mean we can’t prosecute any charges on you”. If they didn’t expect this reaction, they wouldn’t keep making these arguments in situations where they would otherwise know that the only result will be making things worse for themselves. This is what happens when people get so deep in alternate reality echo chambers that they lose all sense of reason.

@Steve_L

If they state for the record in a court of law before a judge that they’re not citizens of the United States of America, hand them over to Immigration

An irony in all this is that it’s actually quite difficult and expensive to get rid of US citizenship. Even if you do manage it, the IRS has a separate “tax citizenship” that can be used to lay claim to taxes on you no matter where you go until a whole other set of requirements are cleared to get rid of that as well. I looked into all this when I was considering dual citizenship, and was horrified by what I learned.

@generic_name

The big problem is that it’s the same “joke” over and over

I learned quite a lot in this one about the subtle variations in this “movement”. For example, all the Moorish stuff from the two Black folks was new to me (see SPLC link above). Bizarre and interesting. But then, I am weirdly fascinated by these people.

I find the reactions of the judges interesting. I loved what the one lady said about, “if you really didn’t believe we had jurisdiction over you, you wouldn’t have shown up today”. That’s deeply insightful, really. It calls out the lie that all these people are telling themselves. They could renounce their citizenship if they really believed all this stuff. There is a process for that. Yet none of them do. They think it’s an easy way out, not a genuine belief system.

The first judge maybe acted inappropriately though? He entered a not guilty plea on behalf of the defendant when he refused to enter anything himself. Are they allowed to do that? Shouldn’t the defendant be held in contempt if he refuses to enter a plea? IANAL but it seems wildly inappropriate for a judge to enter a plea for you.

[L0ki]

@VeronicaConnor

The first judge maybe acted inappropriately though? He entered a not guilty plea on behalf of the defendant when he refused to enter anything himself. Are they allowed to do that? Shouldn’t the defendant be held in contempt if he refuses to enter a plea? IANAL but it seems wildly inappropriate for a judge to enter a plea for you.

That is standard for common law jurisdictions.

It used to be that the defendant had to enter a plea. And if you refused, you’d be “pressed” until you did.

Peine forte et dure

That was eventually changed to refusal to plead being taken as a guilty plea and then later changed to being taken as a not guilty plea which does seem rather fairer on the defendant.

[VeronicaConnor]

Cool, thanks for the clarification on that!

[Immutable_Mike]

@VeronicaConnor

He entered a not guilty plea on behalf of the defendant when he refused to enter anything himself. Are they allowed to do that?

@L0ki

That is standard for common law jurisdictions.

And tbh, If a default setting is required (other than actual pressing😬) this is the fairer of the two options.

[tcg550]

@L0ki

It used to be that the defendant had to enter a plea. And if you refused, you’d be “pressed” until you did.

Plead