Lion killing dentist emails his clients, shows little remorse

Well, in no particular order of importance and no doubt incomplete, issues include:

  1. this particular lion was well known (“beloved”)
    1a) this lion was not known to be a threat to anyone.
    1b) this lion provided tourist income to the area.
  2. not hunted for food
  3. endangered status / conservation
  4. poaching of an animal from a preserve
  5. risible machismo of hunting a large supposedly dangerous animal for a trophy / to demonstrate your incredible prowess.
    5a) especially when the machismo and danger are a total sham: the animal is well fed and is being shot at range from ambush, undoubtedly with heavier weapons readied in a worst-case situation.
    5b) also, there is a lack of skill or chance; the wealthy adventurer has paid a small fortune to ensure that he will be taken to a site where a docile unsuspecting lion can be safely shot from ambush. There is no “hunting” in this execution.
  6. The cruelty of the mortally injured animal taking 40 hours to die
  7. The colonialist and exoticist attitude that entitles this wealthy Minnesotan to go kill the fabled African lion.

… as I say, I’m sure there are still more arguments to be had, and varying weights to be placed on those I’ve listed.

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His actions indicate a disparity with his statements.

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where in this thread have you seen this? I’m sure this sentiment is out there, but it’s a vanishingly small portion of the disgusted responses to this Great White Hunter’s Excellent African Endangered-Fish-In-The-Barrel shoot, such that I don’t even think I’ve seen it. I have seen a lot of avowed recreational hunters heaping abuse on the killing of this lion,

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Its easier when you sidestep the factual links posted about endangered species I guess!

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Poaching happens all the time. You only care now, and you won’t continue to care? That’s a lot more suspect.

Perhaps I should revise my statement. People can articulate it, but not rationalize it against the backdrop of a civilization that frankly really doesn’t care that much about animals’ well-being. The man basically killed a pet, in a world where that’s a fairly common practice and where no one gives a crap otherwise.

I’m not sidestepping it, I’m just pointing out (as per my own factual link) that people don’t care about endangered species unless they’re kinda cute and look like they might enjoy catnip.

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Ok, I’ll bite this time.

I agree with everything you said. There is not an overpopulation of Lions, so this is not a cull.


I am prepared to be flamed into outrage oblivion on this- but I grew up a deer hunter in PA. I don’t hunt recently for various reasons, but I grew up a hunter, it was important to my father, my mother never liked it. I found I enjoyed it, except for the actual killing. And no, I don’t care to hear snarky replies to that statement. There is more to the act of hunting than the act of the kill itself, and those were always the things that I loved.

If I told you I loved hiking into the forest in the dark, waiting to see the sunrise over a frosted forest, the smell of dead leaves, far from even the slightest sounds of civilization, where I could sit all day in peace, would you think I’m an asshole? Can you imagine liking the same thing?

This guy, I don’t think he would have seen any collar even with a scope under the mane of the lion though, and I think it is reasonable to expect that local guides could be seen by people who big game hunt to be trusted. You normally vet people like this though. I can see how it could have happened, and I think aside from the fact the guy basically killed Simba in many people’s minds, including my own, he doesn’t seem to have wanted that effect. His apology is a bit pathetic, but then corporate ones usually are.

He is a trophy hunter though. So I think he’s an asshole. If you want to hate me for being a non-trophy hunter, chances are you don’t know anyone who is one, have never been exposed to it, have never spoke with anyone who does it and why they do it. Perhaps you have, but I’ve found hate is often a symptom of ignorance, willful or otherwise. In any case- I’ll let you in on a secret. Deer hunters, and others who hunt animals they actually eat, and have encroachment and overpopulation issues, often cannot stand people like the dentist- normal hunters often despise trophy hunters, in much the same way non-hunters do.

I dislike killing, period. Even though I have, I still go through anguish when I kill a deer. But even if you choose to consider it a twisted way of showing my respect, I respect the animal by eating it. I don’t kill things for fun. That is simply indefensible in my mind, and many other hunters. Yes, we can go to the store and buy meat, we don’t have to kill it ourselves. But then, you are only avoiding an inconvenient truth. Someone had to kill your burger. I try to think of killing my diner myself as a way of being truthful toward the animals I eat, honest about the reality of how I and most humans live, even if honest means sad, unlike others who have never killed what they eat. If you eat meat, you play a part in the death of an animal somewhere. We are all equally guilty in that regard- I just take responsibility for it directly.

And on that note, yes- only vegetarians and such have any “moral” right to call us out for harming animals. But that’s the same to anyone who eats a hamburger. Which I’m guessing is many of you. I love tofu, actually. It is underrated and unfairly mocked. But I will not live off of tofu and beans without hamburgers. I won’t.

I applaud vegetarians for the choice they make. That is owning up to and refusing to harm animals. Good for you. Seriously. But not everyone else in the world has such strong convictions to completely alter the diet of their species from hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution. Consider yourselves more evolved then, if you like.

Finally- my area in PA actually does have an enormous overpopulation and location problem with deer. It’s why many here do hunt. Meat often gets donated to shelters fresh. We have deer and people dying everyday from car collisions due to encroachment, despite massive tracts of wilderness the deer abandon in population- to move to the city and eat your tulips. I know this because I have been to that wilderness to hunt over decades, and seen the actual numbers drop to see more in the city. People’s image of my neighbors being rednecks that simply enjoy killing things for fun is not fair, in fact, it’s bullshit.

If you must hate someone, those people are the trophy hunters. They cut the heads off in the field and let the rest rot. They are in the same group as poachers to me. Make of that what you will.

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Spent a bit of time reading various articles…
It sounds like they may have been hunting leopard, but ol’ Cecil smelled the bait and wandered in so they went for the big guy. The farm they were on didn’t have a lion permit, but the custom is to just move them to an area that does (kinda like the Dr’s WI bear hunt felony lie). Unfortunately, (for them) Cecil had the tracking collar.

Edit: from what I recall, this is a pretty common fate for lions that live just within the borders of the park – something like 75% of the males end up getting killed just outside the borders.

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I don’t think we are very far apart. Isn’t stalking the best part anyway? I don’t think you will get flamed.

Now this will get me flamed. Feck deer. They are assholes. Them along with bunnies should be banished to Pluto, except Pluto is to good for them.

They are both like if rats had a Rat Moot and said, “hay, know what would be cool? Giant dumb stupid versions of us that are super dumb and annoying. Oh, and ten trillion of them.”

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I don’t hunt but most of my family has, over the years. I don’t have a problem with people hunting in appropriate places with licenses, and eating their kill.

I think trophy hunting, “sport” hunting, with no goal except a head or a hide and a notch on a stick measuring one’s utter inadequacy as a human being, is revolting.

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(I literally have no original ideas :D)

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There’s the ‘bycatch’ - Cecil’s babies will be killed by the next in line.

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What comical concern-trolling going on here. “Hey what’s even the big deal, death is a part of life, and besides, the Sun is going to Red Giant anyway.”

What are the chances the good Dr. hired a PR consultant as a part of his plan to hunt the world’s most famous living lion?

The more fabulous conceit of humanity is the idea that world we live in is somehow significant beyond our own interests. As if we’re interested in preserving it for some unseen intellectual force that will smile upon our deeds. As if the phrase, “For our children and our children’s children,” has never been used in these contexts. We’re in it for the species, our species. Even if only to satisfy and perpetuate our own peculiar morality. I think it’s a lot harder to defend the idea that there’s some objective lens through which this anything more but so much carbon.

I simply do not believe his story. I have several relatives who are avid hunters and a couple who have been on big game African hunts. Every hunt they go on they are extremely careful to know the rules and what they are shooting at. They know they can be fined or jailed for shooting at something they are not allowed to and won’t take that chance.

I find it almost impossible to believe that the dentist didn’t know exactly what was going on and knowingly paid the guides to find him an illegal animal to bag. He’s been on many African hunts before and his ignorance excuse just doesn’t hold water.

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How dare that guy care about his patients’ needs while we try to destroy him! Our insatiable need to shame outweighs their need for root canals. Unbelievable.

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Crimson clupeidae, nobody’s arguing for objectivity, and there is no conflict with beef jerky. This controversy is the very definition of subjective opprobation, a shared sense that this guy was a dick to do this.

Quick off-topic response: yes you can, the same way fish get them…from algae. Here’s a good brand:

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This could be his planned retirement party. He wasn’t just a dentist, he was a cosmetic dentist. He’s got scads of cash.

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Speaking as a smug urbanite vegetarian, I have no problem with the idea that other people choose to eat meat, but I cannot fathom why anyone would get any kicks out of killing. It’s certainly not a sport, because one team cannot possibly win. Now if the animals were armed too, and there was a reasonable chance they could win the shoot-out, that would be sport. If you’re willing to face those odds, go for it. Otherwise, it’s indistinguishable from bullying.

By the way, there are about five times as many dentists in America as there are lions in Africa. I don’t see how the lions can win.

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