Here’s a question, and I’m not trying to be snarky here: Why is it unacceptable to kill an animal because you want a new wall decoration, but acceptable to kill an animal because you want some bacon on your lettuce and tomato sandwich? The obvious point is that the first one is wasteful, and I agree that that does weigh against it, but that alone doesn’t seem to be enough to make up the entire difference between “utterly despicable” and “perfectly fine”.
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It is not deemed unacceptable by any people other than vegans and those who maintain kosher and halal practices to eat pigs, never mind kill those that specifically RAISED for that purpose- and have NEVER been endangered species. You need to do a little more work on points that would seem to be “obvious.”
Source? As far as I can tell, African lions are “Vulnerable” and Asian lions are “Endangered,” both of which fall under the broad category of “Threatened.”
Yes, that’s what I said. Did you misinterpret my post?
I already answered this question, from you, in this thread. Here is that answer again:
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http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesProfile/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=A0JZ
Ok, the IUCN lists them as vulnerable, but that is not an official organization or legal classification. Also, you said endangered. No one counts the African lion as endangered. Asian lions are another story, but the lion in question was African.
If the shoal flits…
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No, that’s answering a different question, which would be “why is it only okay to kill non-endangered animals.” I was specifically responding to Daneyul’s vilification of trophy-hunting in general, regardless of species.
I would still like an answer to my actual question, if you’ve got one.
I can see where your feelings are coming from on bowhunting, and I understand you don’t like things to suffer. I feel the same way. I’m guessing your thinking is along the lines of “gun is a quick death, near painless”.
You’d be right-ish.
Thing is- there are plenty of hunters that are horrible shots. The first deer I ever took I wasn’t a good shot yet, and I extremely regrettably shot it in the lower spine.
I will not describe the aftermath and hour of tracking. I felt horrible for what I did to this day by missing the head or heart, but then, anyone can miss with a gun, or an arrow, at a few hundred yards, or when the deer are running past you at full speed even 50 yards away.
So gun does not equal painless death. It can, if you are a good shot, and have a good clear opportunity.
The people who are bowhunters are usually experienced already with a gun- they want more of a challenge, or believe in being more traditional. Many like the idea of having the same chance a Native American would have had 300 years ago. Call it a primitivistic mindset maybe- but it usually means they are more experienced hunters, more likely to hit what they fire at.
And- an arrow through the heart of a deer will make it drop to the ground nearly as quickly as a bullet.
So it’s not so simple to say a bowhunter is somehow a sadist, if you accept hunting with a gun. There’s a higher likelihood the person aiming is likely to hit, so it balances out in some ways.
I just try to not judge people without experience on a subject, or plenty of research. Hating someone blindly will not change the world for the better, but understanding others and still disagreeing will.
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There’s no page at that link. If you’re trying to say the absence of a page means that they’re not threatened, I should point out that the page for the Asiatic lion is also missing. I think their site is just broke.
What’s “official”? The IUCN is recognized by the United Nations. Anyway, your cite was from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, which one wouldn’t expect to be focused on African fauna.
That was Mausium, not me. In any case, popular use of the term “endangered” is broader than the scientific use, but it’s disingenuous to insist that a species isn’t endangered at all because it’s technically only “threatened.”
I don’t think I have a slicer which can slice the salami that finely.
There is a page, but their site is so badly designed that copying and pasting page URLs doesn’t work properly. It lists them as “Proposed Threatened”. The FWS definition is significant because the legality of his actions have been questioned. Regardless of Zimbabwe law, if he killed an officially FWS endangered species and brought the trophy back to the US he would probably be arrested.
Via Imgur
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The assumption here is that their experience will overcome the higher-difficulty and lower-lethality of bow hunting. If experience were actually a pre-requisite for becoming a bow-hunter, you might have a point. But there isn’t.
Furthermore:
Killing a deer with a bow and arrow is borderline impossible because the animals are so wary and the bow and arrow is such a short-range weapon.
—conservative, rock star and bow hunter, Ted Nugent (source)
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I don’t really think the big game hunters are doing it “for a new wall decoration” though they may end up with one. But that’s just their memento of the experience. What they’re doing is predicated on killing for killing’s sake, no matter how they dress it up. They like to kill things, and that’s something a lot of people find repulsive. Coupled with the fucked up morals of someone who would spend that kind of money flying to another country to act out his sadistic fantasies, and sprinkle in the laughable-if-it-wasn’t-so-sad macho posturing over the animals he shoots from a distance with armed men backing him up, and you got a perfect storm of the polar opposite of what I, and a lot of people, value in a human being. He IS utterly despicable.
I’m not saying I don’t see the disconnect between anger over what he did while being fine with a deer hunter or slaughterhouse worker. But the latter do have reasons, good or bad, for what they do other than the purely depraved motivations that drive this guy, who has nothing but those motivations for the things he does, which is why that sick fuck gets such a visceral reaction from people. There are much worse things done to animals–don’t even get me started on factory farming. But that doesn’t mean this guy is any less horrible or less deserving of what’s happening to him. Wish it could happen to all the trophy hunters out there.
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I don’t know if I would trust the source, or perhaps the animals the Nuge is hunting. I will narrow this down to deer:
After two weekends of practicing I could hit with okay accuracy a shot at 50 feet with a 50lbs recurve bow. With a compound and a scope? Unless it literally is the open veldt… I think ted may be exaggerating.
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There are thousands of successful bow hunters that would disagree. Though in general bow hunters hunt differently than rifle hunters. Far more of them find a place to stand and let the deer come to them, vs walking around looking for deer. But their strategy lets them get closer and a broad head to the vitals is pretty devastating.
Every hunter hopes for a quick, ethical kill. Mistakes happen and hopefully those people learn from their mistakes. But it isn’t like nature is any quick or kinder. If I were a deer I’d rather get shot by a hunter or maybe hit by a car. The alternative is a slow death from sickness and/or starvation, or a much messier death from a predator.
I have seen videos of lions eating the guts out of still living beasts. Here is a hard to watch video of a bear spending nearly a minute chomping on a deer’s neck and it is still screaming out. Warning - this video has a deer making a dreadful, haunting sound.
The world is a harsh one. Life feeds on life feeds on life. It has only been the last maybe 75-100 years since many of humans have the LUXURY to be disconnected from the animals we eat. Harvesting your own chickens and cows or hunting squirrels, rabbit, birds, and deer used to be the norm. Most people I know hunt for a variety of reasons. A nice rack might be one of them, but it isn’t the only reason.
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The guy is the frickin’ poster child for douchebag bow-hunters, ffs! I quoted him for that reason and that reason alone. If you’d like me to drag actual statistics of recovered kills from bow-hunters, I’ll gladly do so. I was hoping to end this sideshow branch quickly and concisely. If you’d like me to completely eviscerate your stance about bow-hunting in public and tar you with the same inhumane douchebag brush, then I will happily oblige.
If you still think I’m trying to defend the dentist (I’m still not, I’m pursuing a related line of thought about hunting in general), let’s take the trip to Africa out of the question. What makes it unacceptable to kill a deer because you want some antlers for your wall, but acceptable to kill a pig because you want some bacon?
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Of course they would. Their favorite dick-magnification exercise is under attack. But they’re wrong, or they’re lying, or they’re in denial. Bow hunting is cruel and inhumane, and there’s really no way to cast it as anything else but that.
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