I don’t think he should be paid to do any of those things. He can make his living doing … something else. If this is something that was always within him, then he needs to clean toilets for a living instead. That’s not jail. That’s not prison.
But it’s clear to me that he should be doing something else—something which puts him in no position of authority or power over anyone.
More accurately, he explicitly denied the allegations up until today.
Huh. That’s an actual apology.
Like, there’s a lot that can be said about how he should have owned up to it sooner (yes, he should have), but it’s an actual apology.
I mean, it kind of says something that an honest-to-goodness apology is unusual, instead of “I’m sorry that some people chose to be offended by something that I did”, but it’s a start anyway.
I don’t see why it’s so surprising that Louis C.K., the guy who has comedy routines about how much he loves masturbating, would admit that he jerked off in front of women.
What’s weird is that he claims he asked them if he could whip it out. Who the fuck does that?
Also: if you have people around you that admire you, you probably shouldn’t pull your dick out in front of them, unless maybe you work in porn.
Did he wear a bag?
No.
He shouldn’t get to further his career as the result of his sexual abuse, and certainly doesn’t deserve to speak for victims.
I was waiting for a “but” or a reminder that he’s a victim too and surprised to not see one.
The thing is, has his behavior changed? Am I right that these incidents happened years ago? Has there been issues recently? If there has been - then he still has a lot of work to do. If there hasn’t been, then good. Perhaps he has made a genuine change.
I think we can continue to condemn his actions while encouraging one to be better.
Which was why I suggested he could work through an intermediary. Work to become part of an advocacy group…which wouldn’t necessarily be furthering his career. If he continues to work on projects directly he could funnel funds and proceeds to groups who specialize in helping sexual assault victims.
Ultimately I think my point is…there could be the potential for him to do good instead of harm.
If we refuse to accept any form of apology, what kind of example does that set for people who are considering acknowledging what they did and apologizing? I don’t know what CK deserves or not, but looking at the overall arc of this (amazing) cultural moment, I welcome examples of apology and reparations. Where’s the model for how to do it right?
He’s only just been outed and you’re already suggesting a new position of esteem and influence for him. Why?
Well it sounds like the verdict of the internet is he should be banned from ever being seen or heard ever again.
I’d still buy a ticket if he came to town.
Actually I am not. I was replying specifically to someone who stated he should just go away and scrub toilets…while honest work that needs doing, and certainly not a bad choice for Louis CK to do for a fair amount of time perhaps…My comment was that I’d prefer he remain working in Hollywood to atone for what he has done. Albeit if his remorse is genuine and can in fact enact change in himself…then perhaps he can enact change in others like him.
If your stance is to simply lock up and throw away the key on every wrong doer, that’s fine. You are entitled to it. Please do not set the tone of my comment and change my words. I did not suggest he should maintain high esteem or power, and influence can come from the least of us, not just from the greatest. The terrible warning can be as influential as the shining example.
Seriously?? How does that atone for what he’s done?
Nope, never said that, which is ironic given your next sentance:
I’m just shocked at how fast everyone is tripping over themselves to forget about this, not even a day after it’s come out.
Yeah, he says he “wielded that power irresponsibly” in reference to these sex acts, but really he has been wielding that power irresponsibly right up until the release of this statement. The entire time he remained silent about this, he was encouraging people to doubt and dismiss these women, using his position to undermine theirs.
One way of interpreting this is that he’s not actually sorry, and that this apology is just a professional lie performed by a professional performer.
The other way is that he actually is genuinely sorry and deeply reflective now, simply because now he is well and truly busted. It wasn’t until all his power and prestige was stripped away and he realized denial wouldn’t change reality that he finally had to contemplate what he’d done in the real world.
In this way, calling him out and ruining his career was a huge favor to him. Power allows people (especially men) to act badly and delude themselves about it. Removing their power allows them to see clearly again. If only we could’ve removed his power before he had hurt so many people.
Taking this view, it’s possible to empathize with him and believe he is genuine, and also understand that it’s necessary that his career be destroyed and that he lose all respect in the industry. Even more generally, all people who benefit from positions of power and prestige should have that power stripped, because if they haven’t already used it to abuse someone, the odds are high that they will.
Ok, so now what?
Finally calling out all these people and the toxic environment of sexual harassment is hugely important and way too long coming.
But do we deal with it? Can someone be forgiven?
Are we just going to shame someone out of the public eye, ruin their career?
For any crime, there is a fair and reasonable punishment. We all need to think about what to do here; trial by Twitter isn’t what is best.
I am not at all dismissing the victims, there should be justice, but at what point has that been served? What does it take to forgive and integrate them back into society?
His career as a professional comedian should be over.
If he’s actually sorry he did it and not just sorry he got caught, I would like to seem him spend the foreseeable future and maybe the rest of his life dismantling some of the culture of enabling that he benefited from at the expense of his victims. In between facing the deserved lawsuits he has coming his way. There’s no reason for him to be around women in the entertainment industry.
I don’t want to see some vacuous apology tour followed by him getting back up on stage to tell jokes, and if he has any shame he won’t do that, but time will tell.
It reflects poorly on our society that the bar is so low that an actual written apology for harming others is extraordinary. It should be the bare minimum baseline starting point. He doesn’t deserve kudos for it any more than his colleagues deserve kudos for not punching him in the face. And one open letter doesn’t expunge a career of abusive behavior. Expressing remorse and demonstrating remorse are two different things.
Because I state one action can atone, it does not mean it completes said atonement and makes everything ok.
I am not tripping over myself to forgive and forget, I offered no time frame on anything or any other parameters. Merely stating I would prefer someone like this not merely go away forever never to be seen or heard again. I don’t feel that is always the best solution, though can be at times.
cc @Lilyth
Thank you, this puts my sentiments in much better words than I came up with. It’s not about him continuing to work in Hollywood exactly as he has to date. But it is also not him off scrubbing toilets somewhere never to be seen or heard from again. The opportunity at some point is there for him to do good…for positive change on his part to come from this.
I wasn’t referring to you only, but instead the general tone of the thread. People here are saying they are ready to overlook the whole thing entirely.
