Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2018/10/23/sarah-silverman-reveals-she-us.html
…
5 Likes
That’s her prerogative, but the women he wronged might not share the sentiment.
Ignorance of the line between consent and lack of consent is no excuse.
I get that her friend with whom she had a very different relationship than the women he transgressed wants to believe he’s sorry, but that’s no help to those other women. Forgiveness isn’t hers to give him.
20 Likes
The comedian shared another story in which the two would strip naked in C.K.’s apartment building and throw their clothes out the window onto the street and proceed to go down the elevator naked to retrieve them. Silverman was clear these were consensual moments between the two…
The ones outside this little bubble of consent, were anyone who got to see these guys naked in the elevator or on the street while they played this game.
8 Likes
I think Louis CK should be able to perform and talk about what he did, and seek some kind of redemption. That being said that doesn’t mean that he deserves forgiveness or a guarantee that people will listen to him.
I do hope that he finds help, I like him and his material but after everything that has come out and how he tried to defend himself he just strikes me as a privileged man-child that can’t accept there’s consequences for his actions.
11 Likes
I love how Sarah waited a year to tell that story.
On a weirdly related note, when I was in my late teens, early twenties, there was a guy I ran around with at parties and such who could make himself orgasm through meditation. It was a neat party trick after we’d all had a few (okay, more than just a few) drinks.
Had we been in our late twenties, though, he probably never would have even mentioned possessing this unique talent, let along performed it for a crowd.
I don’t know what the point of that story is, by the way, but it seems related in some way.
10 Likes
Sometimes, yeah, I wanted to see it, it was amazing.
First Toad. Now Vanellope. -_- Curse you, Howard Stern!
3 Likes
No one is owed a chance at redemption from those they’ve wrong. If other people want to listen to him, that’s their choice, but redemption isn’t theirs to give.
He’s privileged blind to the power his status afforded him. Silverman’s description makes that clear. And it’s grimly ironic given that he made good chunk of that status and wealth joking about his privilege as a white man.
13 Likes
The way I read her story, she isnt making any such claim to forgiveness. I thought she gave more contour to the sin, she helped put what he did into sharper focus.
This hopefully makes the whole thing more comprehensible to male offenders doing similar stuff to women now, but who might tell themselves, “That’s not me, I’m not wanking in her face, so the story doesn’t apply”.
I do get tired of the narrative where his redemption is somehow inevitable. Bill Cosby never came back from his dark place, he never got the forgiveness that some people seem to think he deserves. And the same may be true for this guy as well. But I dont see what she’s saying has anything to do with that.
18 Likes
Yeah, that’s a safe bet:
A strange twist to this story I had not heard before: apparently he asked the women first before masturbating in front of them and they said yes, thinking it was a joke or something.
Is this true? It seems like kind of an important detail to omit from the original story.
6 Likes
He’s banned in my house while my wife is around. Not because what he did was fucked up, but because my wife can’t hear his voice without picturing him naked and making his vinegar strokes face.
Far as the consequences, it’s really tough. Like, he asked consent, but a lot of the time that consent was given from a lower status position. It’s one of those things where it’s like “It’s technically not illegal”, but it’s still really gross, and weird, and all around kind of fucked up that he would ask random women to go along with it.
I can’t help but wonder if his greatest sin in all this was operating on the assumption that Sarah Silverman is a good model to judge the reactions of the average female comedian by. “Well, if Sarah let me do it, it must be okay!”
Nah, dude. Nah.
5 Likes
I know the rest of your post explains it a bit better, but this last statement is troubling. As with everything, she most certainly can give him forgiveness, but that doesn’t mint it as currency to buy away other people’s emotions. She forgives him. The other women do not. Most of us here probably would not.
What gets lost these days is the difference between personal relationships and public relationships. C.K.'s relationship to the public is toasted and probably beyond redemption. But if Silverman still chooses to care about her friend, that’s a real forgiveness and it exists between those two. We can’t touch that, not with a million screams of our outrage. And maybe that’s not the worst thing.
14 Likes
Isn’t this essentially a personal decision? (as I see it anyway).
I can decide to forgive whatever a person’s transgressions are and continue to support or enjoy their work. You could condemn that person and denounce them. And we are both within our rights to do so.
The question is…at what point is it acceptable (if ever) to condemn the person supporting the wrong doer? (awkwardly phrased I know)
Some will come down on Silverman for her support of LCK here…even if she is tempering it and not condoning his actions whatsoever. Not sure that will be ok in my opinion.
2 Likes
There’s nothing wrong with human sexuality and being open about it in the right setting/context. Hell I might be fine with a friend masturbating in front of me if we had that kind of open relationship, but I would never ever make the jump that it was normal behavior that I could do in front of other people I knew
7 Likes
I agree. She seems rather more self-aware than him in realizing the line that he didn’t. But I also think she’s sympathetic to him and I’m merely pointing out that others aren’t going to want to see him or hear from him talk about what he did on stage.
9 Likes
It was in the original narrative, which is why it ended up being a weird grey area that people could argue about.
1 Like
I think Silverman is sort of pointing out while LCK was wrong…she enabled him in certain respects. He did ABC with her and it was fine, so he thought doing ABC with someone else would be fine too. It wasn’t of course…but he didn’t recognize that, shame on him for it.
At least that is partially what I read from her comments.
17 Likes
It’s one of those “if you’re judging him by standards of normal human behavior”, Yes, I agree with you.
But, if you listen to his comedy, most of it is about he can barely read social cues. He’s literally the awkward fat kid who uncontrollably masturbated in the back of the class.
4 Likes
It totally is a personal matter but seeing how Louis ardently defended himself for years until he was cornered, I have a hard time wanting to give him slack. I still wish him the best but I’m no longer invested in anything he does. If he can redeem himself and become a better person then he should try his best, but I’m not going to hold my breath over him
9 Likes
She can forgive him for anything he did to her (which she seems to be saying was nothing she’d feel the need to forgive), not for anything he did to anyone else.
I think we’re having a minor misunderstanding over the meaning of the words forgiveness and redemption. What individuals in the public and in his personal life can choose to do or not do is accept him. Only a victim can forgive what is done to them.
6 Likes
“When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.”
14 Likes
