I asked for a study.
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I studied it, and published it in my previous post. Not peer reviewed, however, and much shorter than the papers you see in the poli sci literature, but I would argue that that is a plus.
And you got my grade.
For anyone else who doesn’t enjoy political failure, I’m still interested in a real answer.
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There are lots of studies going back decades; Piven and Cloward wrote a pretty famous book about American voter apathy in the 80s. So, as you want to be pedantic, the technical answer to your original question is “yes”. (If you want something newer, there’s this, from California in 2017.)
As for what the studies say, basically it is: “they can’t be arsed.”
If Bernie dies before the primary in your state, who will you vote for?
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That’s about as accurate and reasonable as asking “If you like junk food so much, why don’t you just eat the real deal – dog shit laced with arsenic and shards of glass?”
In other words, stop with the “bothsame!” bullshit. It’s dishonest and stupid.
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Yeah, but that’s a totally unsatisfactory answer that doesn’t explain anything. If someone wasn’t eating and you said, “Why aren’t you eating” and they said, “I can’t be bothered” you might come back to them and say, “Don’t you realize that eating is necessary to survive?”
If someone can’t be arsed, that only means that they don’t see a good reason to vote or that the barriers in front of voting outweigh whatever reason they can think of. If a person thinks that it is effective, important and convenient to vote, then almost certainly aren’t going to think, “Enh, I can’t be bothered to do it”. So there’s a much deeper explanation.
One of the problems we have is that when we hear people say, “I just don’t think my vote matters,” pro-voting groups interpret that as a personal failing from the non-voter. I was just looking at a study (from Canada), and they lumped reasons people gave for not voting into “administrative” and “lack of interest” and they put “I didn’t think my vote would matter” as a “lack of interest” reason. That’s not a lack of interest, it’s a real complaint about the system. And the system really does have a big problem.
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I consider myself a centrist. If I lived in Canada, I would be considered a centrist. In much of Europe, I would be considered right-wing. But apparently wanting things which would be completely uncontroversial in Canada makes me a raving moonbat lefty here in the US.
Are things that the rest of the civilized world takes for granted really such an unrealistic pipe dream for the US?
I know I did. I wasn’t the least bit happy about it, but I did. Even though fucktons of Hillary supporters were crowing at me to “go home and sulk” instead of vote, I still voted for Hillary Clinton. I wasn’t alone there either. Clinton won the popular vote, with only 62,000 fewer votes than Obama received in the previous election. There was still a huge turnout for her. I have no evidence that Sanders supporters defected in any significant numbers, even though people tell me that they did without any evidence.
The bigger takeaway is that the Democratic primaries were highly contentious that year. I do not want that to happen again. I will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee will be. I’m hoping that’s Warren, knock on wood. If it isn’t, I’ll vote for Biden or Buttigieg or Harris or Andrew Yang or 
Gabbard or whothefuckever just as long as I vote against Cheeto Benito.
If you’re still complaining about “Bernie Bros” in 2016, you’ll do the same. You’ll rake the moral high ground and vote for whomever your party nominates, right?
Sure they could. They could and they did.
The idea that Bernie supporters sat out this election in any real number is fiction. We didn’t all go back to our parents’ basements and sulk. Most of us just put on our grown-up pants and voted for the Democratic candidate.
It’s weird how people perpetuate this facile stereotype and still insist on being perceived as the adults in the room just because their candidate was the more establishment one.
Than there were those who were were disenfranchised at the polls, but we never hear about them.
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I take it you hate Bernie. Well, you should vote for your corporate “Democrat” idol, or vote for the Real Deal - the republican whom you really want.
Not at all. It’s totally honest. You gotta be ignoring mountains of definite, non-fake, historical record.
Of course the co-opted “centrist” Dems give some lip service to progressive ideals. Their bosses require it. But when the rubber hit the road, whom did Obama (for example) appoint to his cabinet? A bunch of Wall Streeters. Did he end any wars after pledging to in the campaign? No. Did he start more destabilizing actions in the Middle East & elsewhere, causing millions to suffer and/or die? Yes - Syria, Libya, Honduras to name three.
Historical facts. If you deny them, you have drunk the right-wing (altho labelled as “Democrat”) koolaid.
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I think that was an honest question, asking you what you think people should do if Bernie’s not the candidate.
Honestly, do you have a plan if Bernie’s not the candidate?
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As FDR, one of my personal heroes (altho he had his shortcomings) said, “I don’t answer hypotheticals”.
If you listen to interviews with him you will hear an extremely refreshing view of the world, still applicable to many issues even today - just showing how the right wing and billionaires have controlled 99.99% of the “common knowledge” and “accepted wisdom” these days. Not to mention the “liberal media” (HAHAHA), somewhat above 90% owned by 6 corporations.
No, he didn’t actually say that.
And from the following quote, I see that when it comes to hypotheticals, you only assume you know the answers to them.
Assuming everyone’s a secret Republican makes for a dreary conversation.
I don’t think everyone on the BBS secretly wants to vote Republican, and if you’re going to accuse people, it’s better to back it up with something. (At least for the sake of the discussion.)
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You’re wrong. We have a thread for that:
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I feel the need to point out that the Republicans bind together 3 disparate groups:
- Religious nuts
- Fascists
- Capitalist nobility
If any one of these groups became too powerful, they would destroy the other two (group 1 would have no other god before theirs, group 2 is similar except their dictator is god to them, and group 3 would take all of the money and leave everyone else destitute).
And yet, somehow, Republicans keep all three perfectly balanced to gain control of most American political bodies most of the time.
Democratic infighting is keeping you weak.
Sure centrists might cozy up to big business too much, liberals might overextend on how many oppressed peoples to care about at one time, progressives want big government projects to help the masses without a clear idea of how to pay for it… But these are minor differences.
And yet all I see are cutthroat squabbles on the Democrat side while the unholy trinity of the Republicans sail past to victory yet again. It’s enough to break your heart.
If Bernie dies before the primary in your state, who will you vote for?
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You laugh, but that was a pretty accurate impression. Cowicide is the kind of overzealous fanatic who just ends up being a huge liability to whatever cause he supports, regardless to any good intentions he may have had to start with.
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OK, I’ll put you in the “I ignore historical facts” column.
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Very simple to do that, again simply looking at historical facts.
Has voting for a corporate “Democrat” ever made a real difference? Did the number of media owners increase or decrease under presidents whose major actions like cabinet choices betrayed their true intent? Did the median income of the 90% increase, decrease, or stay the same under them? Has there ever been any movement towards M4A (and Romneycare doesn’t count - that lets insurance executives buy 10 vacation homes instead of the usual 8). Has there ever been real change to address climate change?
Making token gestures/laws that may - or may not - help the 99% get swallowed by the enormous effect of the things in the last paragraph. And I’m just mentioning the most obvious ones.
Best not to believe speeches by politicians just because they have a (D) behind their name. Actions and results show their true intent.
But do I have to believe in FDR saying something no one credited him with?
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