Get them to burn down the Amazon servers so all the filthy ebooks fail. They’re called Kindle, surely that’s a sign?
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A Kindle device can contain a Lot of books. Burning a Kindle is somewhat disappointing, as It wont make a great bonfire.
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I think the world is hot enough and we should probably try not to destroy knowledge, really.
It’s probably for the best.
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I’ve read at least eight different translations of the Christian Bible and I believe that is my favorite rendition of Genesis. For me Crumb’s graphic portrayal provided some insight that other versions do not; I think it’s a significant and theologically important work. Strongly recommended.
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Would it? A lithium battery seems like it would rather enhance the fire.
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None the less, claiming that the root of the religion is inherently about authoritarianism does precisely that.
We should do that, rather than casting everyone under the same umbrella.
But it kind of is, since, once again, you talked about how it’s at the origin of the religion.
You just said it again. That is my problem. It’s a tool, that, of course, can and has been used to oppress people. That must be rejected. But to say it was formed for that purpose is just… not accurate, from what we know of the roots of the religion.
He’s being crystal clear on what he means.
That is not what people have been saying here, yourself included. You and others have said that the religion was authoritarian from the start. That is your opinion and the facts show us a much more complicated picture.
Because those already exists, and common with their understanding of their faith, they’re not attention-seeking assholes who are out there to cover themselves with glory. They are the people of faith who are trying to make the world a better place. They are not out there contorting themselves for a public image, but they are feeding the homeless, helping their neighbors, welcoming refugees, cleaning up their community, etc… like the church around the corner from me, who has a weekly food bank since the pandemic started. Or the churches that regularly host the local gay men’s choir for performances. Or the people showing up to support trans people. They’re not out to get clicks like these fascist assholes, but care about their community and the people in them, as they exist. There are plenty of progressive sects out there, if you care to look.
So what you want is for the Christians who aren’t fascists to get more media attention when they don’t have any control over the “it bleeds, it leads” media that focuses on the divisive shit because it gets greater engagement. If the media isn’t covering the glamorous work of doing the kind of things that Jesus suggested people do, I don’t think that’s the problem of the people doing that work. That’s a problem of our media landscape.
And lots of other sects, too.
The latter for sure…
[ETA] Steve Shives, a confirmed atheist on representation and religion…
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Thanks for the work you do!
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… I think we have to short out the battery somehow
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OK, this seems to be the root of our misunderstanding here. When I’m saying that Authoritarianism is baked into the religion, I’m not speculating about what the purpose of the religion was in the minds of its first adherents. I’d say that’s almost unknowable anyway. What I am saying is that these Authoritarian messages are baked into the mythology. The stories that it tells are dripping with lessons on obedience, literally laying down laws, tales of violence and conquest, and the patriarchal mores of a bronze age society. It’s not difficult to use these stories to support some fairly negative things, as we can only too easily see in the “Christian conservatism” of today, and many other historical examples, that you’ll be very familiar with, given your line of work.
Now it is also possible to place all the emphasis on the bits of the books that are not like that- to go for all the more positive and hopeful parts of the narrative in these stories. But the negative stuff is still in there. I wish it wasn’t, but it is, and like I said up-thread, persuading other Christians to focus on the non-harmful parts of the narrative is a big job.
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I call bullshit on that one. It’s hard to find a more anti-authoritarian text than the New Testament. Some extremist sects have twisted the meaning to make it a tool for authoritarianism - just like @anon61221983 has been saying. There are no shortage of secular and even scientific writings hat have been twisted for the same purpose.
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Come on. One google gets me an explicit endorsement of slavery:
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Fair, but anything Paul is suspect. It was written long after Jesus (or any of the composite Christ-inspirations, if you take a more historical bent) was around to fix it.
It’s like if Dennis Prager wrote an unapproved epilogue of Das Kapital.
And it’s the jarring difference in message and style that makes it not of much use to some sects and more to others.
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“Yes, but Paul wasn’t a real Scotsman Evangelist.”
I mean, for those who know their Biblical Exegisis, we know that, but at the same time, the Letters are canonical, and they do contain stuff that endorses authority, and isn’t picking and choosing which bits you get to follow and which bits you should ignore what got everyone into this confusion in the first place?
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Assholes around the world are attracted to religion as a way to generate respect and deference they haven’t earned. A way to avoid being criticized for acting like malicious sociopaths. The moment a faith has official status in a culture it is used to promote dickish behavior.
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By scientists, nope
But The New Testament has been twisted and contorted by clergy and believers for centuries.
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I absolutely heard God say, “burn that damn Bible, it is so poorly written, I don’t want my name associated with that garbage.”
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No, it was ambiguous whether he meant he felt I was painting all Christian believers with a broad brush, or the ones who are progressive but stay inside the larger institution, or the structure of the religion itself, regardless of its members. I appreciate your perspective in the rest of your reply, though I disagree with a lot of it, but if you’re personally offended by me asking someone else for clarification on their post, I really can’t do anything about that.
So any activists that engage with the media or otherwise try to get their story out there publicly are glory-seeking assholes? THAT seems like painting with a broad brush to me. Progressives band together and form activist group identities with organized, common goals all the time. Why is it so unthinkable for Christians to do this en mass instead of only in small sects?
Lots of people do local community work and otherwise make the world a better place in quiet, private ways… and also do vocal activism to try to effect changes on a larger scale. Why is it only okay for Christians to do the former?
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I mean, that’s simply ahistorical, and ignores examples in this thread.
I’m a scientist and an atheist, but there is nothing that can be laid at the feet of religion that can’t also be laid at the feet of science. Sorry.
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That’s not remotely what @anon61221983 was saying. Attention-seeking assholes are who well-meaning Christians have to compete with for attention. And that’s a losing proposition.
But that’s the whole point that @anon29537550 and @anon61221983 have been making. There are sects of Christianity that are toxic and others that are benevolent. The people disagreeing with that are saying, no, all Christians start from a basis of bad. So exceptions rather prove their (@anon61221983 & @anon29537550’s) point and yet fail to prove the opposite.
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