Is it a great example of slut shaming? Which is a real thing, and a bad thing that people do all the time. But being a White House intern, and blowing the married president in the Oval Office, thatās an awful move. Iām pretty sure that deserves some condemnation. Iām not gonna feel guilty about that.
A 22-year-old girl finds herself alone with the most powerful man in the world.
Blame the girl.
Pretty sure I remember plenty of fingers pointed at Bubba as well.
No, people blamed the girl and the President. Because adults are accountable for their decisions. Iām not sure itās fair to conflate Lewinskyās actions with slut shaming because she to a large degree made her bed.
Hereās my take on it.
I agree with you. It was a (heh) dick move. And if thatās what sheād been shamed for, Iād agree somewhat. But if anything, she was shamed for giving a blowjob, and if you can find me a guy who would go on record as turning down a good blowjob, Iāll show you a damn liar.
Nah, she was shamed for performing a sexual act, not for performing a sexual act on a married man.
Yes, Bill caught a lot of shit for that (and he should have!) but he wasnāt shamed for what he did; he was shamed (and impeached) for lying about it. By the way, Iām sure glad Congress was on top of the big, important issues of the 90s: baseball and infidelity in the Oval Office. Sure glad Trent Lott was willing to stand up to mean olā Bill Clinton, trying to distract America away from important issues by trying to go after Osama bin Laden.
ā¦wait, what?
Well - she had some responsibility in the matter.
The Puritanical side of America can be pretty ugly.
She herself admits that she made poor choices. What she objects to is her sexual choice becoming the defining element of her life, such that she is unable to find regular work, she is always āthat womanā, and even now peopleās impressions of her are strongly coloured by this relationship. Years later, she gets surrounded by paparazzi and wonders about when sheās going to be shoehorned into the next political debate. The relationship is forced into archetypes: If Bill Clinton didnāt force himself on her, she was the ānarcissistic looney toonā/homebreaker/other woman/āunstable stalkerā etc. For some feminists, she wasnāt pretty or important enough to be a presidentās lover. It reflected badly on them that the relationship was seen as unequal, even if it was consensual.
Even as a conservative evangelical Christian teen in 1998, I couldnāt understand why this was such a big deal. I mean sure, it was inadvisable, but heās far from the first U.S. president to have had an affair. At the time I had this idea of America as very socially liberal, and hereās this ridiculous court case that has nothing to do with the presidentās ability to govern. Somehow itās so important that he has to lie about smoking weed and having an affair, because this would destroy his credibility. Monica Lewinsky becomes a caricature of a sex-crazed woman for doing something that many, many people do, and that is legal. Hillary Clinton wasnāt making a big deal of it, but somehow everyone else needed to. Perjury is a completely different thing, but everyone just came over as a bunch of hypocritical prudes to me.
āGirlā? Really?
22 year olds are called women. Did you ever once get the impression that the dress was saved out of girlish sentimentality? Did you see Clinton as someone able to keep it in his pants? Blame is the wrong word. There is more than enough wrongheadedness in anyone who did not run screaming away from the whole affair.
"How does it feel to be Americaās premier blow-job queen?ā - sounds like a Stuttering John question.
She doesnāt know why it became about a blow job?
Wasnāt part of the problem that they were messing around when he was at work, potentially while he was making decisions on the phone? Otherwise I think the boys club pretty much keeps a lid on their sexual exploits. I doubt there would have been as much scrutiny of the actual act and circumstance if this was just your typical hotel room situation after hours.
Yeah. Iāve always heard that thing, allegedly attributed to a Secret Service agent but probably just an urban legend, that the only President that never brought a mistress in was Jimmy Carter.
And I know people who still joke about Clinton and Lewinsky. It was 16 years ago.
Perhaps individual female humans can decide individually if they care whether they are called girls or women, and perhaps they are diverse enough to be able to have differing opinions. Many may even have such complex intelligences that they can vary their opinions depending on context. Maybe they donāt really need any external authorities to tell them how they should always be unfailingly labeled?
Iām going to play it safe and try to remember to always refer to people of every gender and sex as āhumansā. I hope the human beings who self-identity as female will forgive me if I occasionally slip up.
Fair enough, but when coupled with (not you) a blame seeking attitude it seems to cast just one side as the villain to say āgirlā. Iām not defending their honor. Iām pointing out an emotional appeal that just has no place in the whole sordid mess.
@samsa @boundegar @mister44 I think weāre getting distracted. Calling someone āAmericaās premier blow-job queenā 3 years after the event at a live taping is absolutely shaming, devoid of any compassion, and very likely intentionally hurtful in our society. This is why much of the audience, reacting appropriately, told her not to respond.
Many comments in this thread seem to be focusing on whether or not she deserved it. Arguing either side implicitly accepts slut-shaming if the situation warrants it.
It doesnāt matter if she deserved it or not. Itās a terrible thing to do to someone.
Or we could just file that one under āaināt nobodyās business except for Monica and the Clintons.ā
Iām all for public condemnation of bad behavior that affects other people in some way, but unless she was blowing Clinton in exchange for state secrets or Presidential vetoes then we should just let the consenting adults do as they will.*
*(Exception: politicians who run on a platform of āfamily valuesā and otherwise try to butt into the personal lives of other people. Because fuck 'em.)
Maybe I am misremembering things, but Iām fairly certain that BOTH the man and woman in this sordid affair took their share of lumps. I donāt recall Monica facing down impeachment proceedings. In regards to the legacy of things, yes she bears a heavier burden in that regard and we remember Bill more for the historical importance of our economic growth during his presidency.
In the end, I can only speak for my own perceptions. She was a young woman in the presence of not only the most powerful person in the world but also an individual whoās adept charm and smooth talking abilities would make anyone swoon in his presence. It takes two to tango. He could not have offered, She could not have accepted. And since none of us were in the room it could also be said that SHE could not have offered and HE could not have accepted.
Regardless, I do not think of Monica as some trampā¦If Helen Mirren were charming me, I would swoon in a heartbeat and perhaps hate myself the following morning but admit I couldnāt help myself.
Sorry, but Iām married and for one wouldnāt accept anything sexual from anyone other than my wife. I donāt know, maybe thatās because I have some decency, respect, and honor the vows I tookā¦somehow I expect the president to be capable of the same, you know being the most powerful man in the world bullshit. I feel bad for Monica that she isnāt in a position to do jack about any of this, while Clinton just kind of shrugged it off. Hilary should have dropped his ass, I might have a little more respect for her now if she had.
