"More frightened than bigoted": Trumpism dominated by trade, not race

[grimloki]

Bernie who?

[chenille]

@grimloki

If only because when you start with the Hitler comparisons, it means you’ve lost the argument.

That was a good rule for common hyperbole that’s become a cheap way to overlook actual parallels to fascism. For the record, Trump is not Hitler reincarnated and I agree simply declaring him such is not persuasive. That doesn’t mean there isn’t some history there I’d rather remember than repeat. For instance the economics-or-racism dichotomy getting built up really seems to miss the point.

Besides, you know who else thought nobody could really compare to Hitler?

[daneel]

@anon50609448

Trump is a know-nothing idiot

If he does somehow get denied the GOP nomination, the Know Nothing party might be a good place for him.

[grimloki]

Ah. So your point is… Even though we’ve Hitlered the Hitler out of the world Hitler, that we should stop that now… In this one Hitlery instance, because now there’s actually some different and even MORE relevant parallels to the fall of the Weimar Republic, the social backlash against the wild liberal policies of the preceding era, and that people will recognize those common elements, based on the vast common knowledge we all share about pre WWII history?

Now? Not like last time when Bush was Hitler, or the other Hitler Bush. Or Barack O’Hitler. Or Hitlery Rodham Clinton.

This is the time. Now. The time the Hitler argument really makes sense. And people won’t think you’re just Hitlering to Hitler again.

Well, to that I say… Spoken like a true Hitler.

You Hitler you.

[Mangochin]

Stalin and Mao get no love here. Except when a Bible thumping moron compares anyone who is either an atheist or supporter of the separation of church and state to those guys.

Both of them were far more successful evil masterminds than Hitler was.

[anon47741163]

This distinction between “economically scared” and “genuinely racist” might have had some meaning, if no one had ever before thought to pit poor white workers against poor workers who were black or Irush or Chinese or (insert ethnicity here)…

[chenille]

Fine, let me make my point clear without the half-joke example. Anyone who is debating whether Trump’s support is actually racist, or if it is really about economic injustice, has no idea what has impelled racist movements throughout history. Like anansi says, there is not actually a dichotomy here.

[bobtato]

In all seriousness I think it’s a useful oversimplification.

However much you talk about politics, elections come down to a binary question. Nuanced thinking does affect how people vote, but the more nuanced a thought is, the further it takes you from being part of a statistically significant bloc, whereas boneheadedly simplistic approaches will lead millions to vote the same way. So when there’s one incandescently obvious explanation for why people are voting a certain way, that’s gonna be the only explanation that matters.

Plus, voters themselves are aware of this. If you don’t want to vote for Trump’s racist movement, you don’t vote for Trump. The idea of the “excusable” Trump voter requires that somehow they don’t know about the bigotry they’re siding with, and I’m willing to call bullshit on that.

[KarlS]

Much of what frightens them sounds a lot like life as a non-American. We’ll see if Trump manages to turn the clock back to the 20th century.

[grimloki]

Wow that was weird. You didn’t say Hitler and I saw your point. And thought about it.

[anon50609448]

@generic_name

While I agree with most of what you said, I think maybe you just organized the paragraph poorly-- sub-living wages and food stamps are the end result of Wal-Mart driving out local businesses, not the cause.

They are cause too. Local businesses probably never thought, “I could save money by just not paying my employees enough to live because they can collect public assistance.” WalMart is all over that.

@bobtato

They’re not being tricked, they don’t need you to make excuses for them from your moral Olympus, and you haven’t solved anything by “discovering” that the anger that fuels bigotry actually stems from economics, rather than esthetic disagreements about skin color (gasp).

@chenille

For instance the economics-or-racism dichotomy getting built up really seems to miss the point.

Racism is a boogeyman in mainstream culture. Somehow despite the fact that nearly everyone is racist, “Racist” is about the worst thing you could call someone (worse than “Hitler”). People are far more offended by the idea of being called racist than they are at actual racism. The idea that Trump supporters are not racist is bizarre. So I like your point about the racism-or-economics dichotomy. It’s nuts. Racism follows bad economic conditions around like a vulture.

A few people are actively interested in being racist. A few people are actively interested in combating racism. Most people are far more concerned with their own wellbeing than with the colour of anyone’s skin. When there’s not enough food on the table, they start to look for excuses as to why they should get theirs, and dividing people up by ancestry is one way to justify the creation of a group that deserves less so that they can have more.

So while I’ve been interested in these articles about how fear and economic problems play into Trump’s situation, I’m really happy that both of you have beaten this drum in this thread and at least one other (to my recollection). It’s not either-or racism or economics, it’s a combination of the fact that most people are basically racist it’s that when people feel threatened (see correlation of Trump votes with white middle-aged deaths) things get very grim.

[deedub]

Photoshop? No, that really is what his hair looks like!

[anon15383236]

@anon50609448

Racism is a boogeyman in mainstream culture. Somehow despite the fact that nearly everyone is racist, “Racist” is about the worst thing you could call someone (worse than “Hitler”). People are far more offended by the idea of being called racist than they are at actual racism. The idea that Trump supporters are not racist is bizarre.

Ain’t that the sad honest truth. A lot of the pointing at and denouncing of the overt racism of Trump and his gang is done by white people who won’t face up to their own covert racism.

[anon50609448]

@anon15383236

Ain’t that the sad honest truth. A lot of the pointing at and denouncing of the overt racism of Trump and his gang is done by white people who won’t face up to their own covert racism.

When you see people talking about “racist voters” in the mainstream media, you have to translate that to something like “people eager to die in a race-war.” That’s what they mean, because anything less than that and they wouldn’t dare use the word “racist” to describe it.

[grimloki]

A bad reputation is way worse than a guilty conscience.

[grimloki]

I think this is really it.

Diminishing resources mean we all fight to figure out who gets the food, and the water, and the shelter, and the energy. Due to circumstances that cross all the borders, and that aren’t decided by policy. Outside forces.

And there will be losers.

Welcome to Planet Thunderdome!

8 billion enter… 6 billion leave…

[tymyrick]

But, but…God gave him a lot of money. That means he must be right, right?

[bobtato]

@anon50609448

Somehow despite the fact that nearly everyone is racist, “Racist” is about the worst thing you could call someone

This is a good point. Perhaps the reason this Trump business has been pushing my buttons is that it feels like it could be cathartic, like, maybe now we can start acknowledging that racism is (and always has been) a mainstream political force.

As you say, people go through contortions to avoid naming it, but those contortions themselves are partly a way of saying “racism is all these people have left, and now you even want to take that from them”. Well, I do want to take that away from them, and I can see how that makes me a jerk in a weird way, but in any case it’s hard to even talk about this if we have to lie at all times about what we really mean.

[tymyrick]

@Mangochin

He hasn’t a clue how government actually works, but neither do his supporters. His skill has always been in promotion of things, not implementing them in a responsible manner. That sort of thing also typifies his businesses. He is great at raising money from rubes but he can’t run a functioning business for shit.

Republican politicians don’t have a clue how government actually works, but neither do their supporters. Their skill has always been in promotion of things, not implementing them in a responsible manner…They are great at raising money from rubes but they can’t run a functioning government for shit.

FTFY

[Mangochin]

I would slightly disagree.

Deep down Republican politicians know how to do things, when they set their mind to it. They just either choose not to (Libertarians) or do so in furtherance of evil (Bible Thumpers and Corporate Rent Boys). They can run a functioning government, if that government happens to be an oligarchy. Democracy, not so much anymore.