My thoughts on 'You aren't giving Trump a chance.'

Biggest complaint i’ve seen from my family and their facebook feeds. ‘Liberals whining about trump not giving him a chance to prove them wrong.’

To me he has had EIGHT YEARS to give us a solid business plan and presentation. He is supposed to be this savvy multimillionaire that is here to run DC like a business right? I have seen no solid plans. Just talk of a wall that won’t work, telling refugees to go fuck themselves stay in your war torn hellhole countries, and that women can expect to be grabbed by the pussy.

I am not convinced he is fit for leadership purely because of how med point meandering his talks sound. Doesn’t help that the guy that shows up for his white house tv spots loks down at his feet constantly, shuffles about, sounds insecure as hell, and while some of what he says sounds nice (meet with union leaders) ‘meet with’ can be taken any number of ways no matter what the actual event was like (as my stepdad would point out if he wasn’t firmly team trump.)

They go on and on at how ‘we’ asked for obama to be given a chance, yet at the time Obama hadn’t gone on an eight year long campaign screaming that bush wasn’t american. That the white devil had kept his people down, etc etc.

For me trump has had his chance to convince me and he has failed. I wanted to give him a chance at election night purely because i saw one side being self congradulatory and the other acting like literal Armageddon was happening and I tend to look at extremes and go ‘yea no fuck all of you because you’re acting nuts.’

I think he will be a poor president, but barring missouri compromise level shit… he won’t be our worst. The economy will limp along. Gay rights will stay in place because politically it’d be suicide to do more than bluster. illegal immigration is always going to be an issue, and I will feel all the more bitter and hateful of my family for eight years of them patting themselves on the back at what ‘their man’ is doing while ‘you libtards constantly sabotage’ while being utterly blind to ‘oh hey shoe. other foot.’


I hope you are not having political debates with a guy who is literally calling you a “libtard.”

That would be normalizing the abuse.

You don’t HAVE to talk to anybody, about anything, and if you do they should be meeting minimum standards of behavior.


It is what it is. Everyone else has normalized the behavior by acting like I"m the one ‘that needs to grow a personality.’ I just figure comparing notes on why we already dislike trump without what would sound to the other side like tinfoil rantin or to an outsider like us doing the same thing republicans have been doing for the past eight years about obama.

I dunno how you could possibly reach anyone who didn’t pick him for an incompetent blowhard from the start. If someone is clueless enough to imagine 45 somehow isn’t an unmitigated fail, it appears they are impervious to facts.

I’m even looking at you askance regarding your call that he isn’t the worst Prez yet - that’s obvious, and this is only slightly tempered by his colossal incompetence putting a damper on his smarmy malevolence.


This is more for our own sakes rather than theirs. Also this is reaction to a time in my life where i got so wound up with anger brought on by stress (that hasn’t gone away mind you) I was lashing out at everyone and everything and hacked away at one of the few social circles i had at the time… which is still biting me in the ass with the MUSH community.

Point is I’d rather discussion had on why we feel as we do as opposed to reaching to hyperboli and screeching at how stupid anyone that follows him is… given that’s the sort of thing republicans did. I am not saying both parties are equel. I am however stating the 'demonize and belittle the other ‘team’ feels sickiningly familiar, and while I DO NOT like Orangeinator, I would rather us try staying somewhat rational and remind ourselves Why through careful self examination.

Or, y’know. we can click on anything that has the shit-gibbon speak and stare in abject horror.

I’m sorry, I have no other way to react. What are you supposed to do with people who insist on Fox ‘reality’? And now it’s even worse - the trumpkins are spouting shit that’s too demented for even the Fox filth.


I’ve been attempting to avoid with… limited success.

Hoever this topic is more to compare notes on this perticular tidbit of ‘you are not giving trump a chance’ rather than me continuing on with family disagreements.

Was wanting to see how I lined up with others here.

Well, I’d say that given reality’s well-known liberal bias, the vast majority of folks with a serious interest in reality (of which typical BBers are definitely a subset) wouldn’t bother giving Trump a chance - he’s just so very far from being capable of even pretending he’s the right man for the job.

You say you’re tired of the hyperbole, which I guess is understandable if you were exposed to a lot of anti-Obama sentiment, but the thing about phony ‘balance’ is that sometimes, some things are actually true.

And 45 is unprecedented in so many ways. Perhaps most importantly, his ignorance of, and brazen disrespect for, the machinery of democracy is off the charts. That aspect alone should be enough to give anyone with a clue the screaming heebie-jeebies.

And that’s just scratching the surface of the ways that he’s singularly unqualified.

And then you have the gob-smackingly obvious fact that this repellent bozo is a screaming neon con man. This shady huckster’s history is for the most part a matter of public record, and yet there’s an army of rabid dupes wolfing down this shit sandwich with vicious glee.

And you know why? Because idiot tribalism is the way of the authoritarian follower. And there are so many of that type in the US, because the filthy PTB have been pouring money into think tanks and media empires and god knows what else for decades, to consolidate and expand their power. And long-term investment in idiocy is how you pull off the sort of epic bastardry that’s currently being waged on us all in the one-sided class war that by the way, is totally a thing.


Reminder: Hoover deported ~1 million U.S. Citizens that were a little too Mexican for everyone’s taste.


Yeah. “worst in history” has a lot of stiff competition (I’m thinking of Andrew Jackson). I’d nominate Trump for “least competent in history” though

I’m not convinced that die-hard Trump supporters need me to convince them. In another related discussion, @generalcommrade mentioned “disconfimation experiences” - It’s my opinion that anyone who still considers Trump to be the smartest guy in the room is going to be in for quite a lot of disconfirmation experiences in the next month or two. Even Fox is starting to turn away from Trump. Basically, if you don’t get your worldview entirely from Alex Jones, then reality is going to break through


Trump has been President for less than one month, and has already ‘needed’ three vacations to relax and recuperate.

At this rate, I’m not sure if he’s physically capable of making it through six months, much less four years.


You can’t talk with them about any of this because they’re not playing a fair game. They’ve stacked the deck and they won’t tell you the rules of the game. Expecting them to play by the rules is a fools errand. They are playing a game of emotion while claiming its a game of logic. Arguing with them will only frustrate yourself.

This series of tweets illustrates it perfectly.

When you posted that link before, that is what she’s talking about. There was no substance in that article, it was all innuendo and code, if we don’t have the code we can’t decipher it.

I have no advice for you, I wouldn’t be able to remain calm in a house where someone called me a libtard every day, so good for you for managing that.


Less calm and more ‘making sure I’m not in the room when politics is talked about and making it clear I have zero desire to be involved.’ You’ve seen me on here. Even in my worst moments that’s me being relatively polite. Also I’m better spoken online than off due to having time to think without someone mockingly making google eyes at me gaping mouth half open going ‘UUUhhh UUUH sometime today… oh you know what? forget it.’

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The only thing that strikes me is to think about the long game here.

Trump is going to continue to embarrass himself and, eventually, his supporters. When that happens and the reality of the situation sets in it’s probably unlikely that the people who’s world view has ‘come under attack’ will suddenly become non-partisan.

You will likely bare the brunt of the inevitable scapegoating so it’s probably a good idea to set yourself up as an impartial observer now.
I don’t know if it would work for you but I take the devil’s advocate position whilst observing the calamities of my enemies.
When you are speaking to a Trumpet, it allows you to point out his blunders and frame an implied critical stance in a perspective that explores the situation sympathetically.

Hope it works out for you.


In a certain sense we’ve had to give Trump some chance, because right now he is president, and so we have all had to see what he does with that. I suppose talking to a fiscal conservative, I might point out his vacations and security in this month have each cost more than Obama’s in a year, so it is fair see what taxpayers are getting for this money.

On that point, the story tells itself to anyone sensible. Even someone sociopathic enough to want to keep out refugees should be able to tell the executive order was incompetent, threw travel into chaos for all sorts of people, and wasn’t written in a way that could stand up in court. The leader who promised to take on ISIS authorized his first mission, and it ended with both marine and civilian casualties and US forces getting kicked out of Yemen. That’s not even touching the attacks on the Lugenpresse, the intelligence agencies, the environment, every part of the government, the very notion of facts.

But you’re quite right, very little of this is a surprise to people who payed the least attention before the election. I agree with the others here, saying Trump still needs to be given a chance after all this is so unreasonable, anyone asking for it plainly means to be disingenuous. There’s no sense arguing against it as if it were something people actually thought.


My reaction and response to the past month can be summed up thusly I am afraid.


I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said.

Dude, that sounds horrific…


It is what it is. At this stage leaving isn’t an option unless i have somewher I KNOW I can start over, have some kind of employment or some other way to support myself, and the ability to at least try a few things like podcasting or youtube. I don’t see this as feasable without the fear it’s going to somehow long term fuck me over even if someone with a lot of money went ‘hey I want to help you out of a jam.’

i actually like my family SO LONG As POLITIcs ar NEVER BROUGHT UP. I do not mind helping them with errends or house things or the like. IT’s just when political views happen that it turns into oil/water. I also hate the idea that now everyone here thinks they’re literal monsters.

Deeply flawed/ sure. Literal Hitler/Stalin/PolPot? No.

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