Its not going to cost them much if they sack you before your probationary period is up. I had a well paid python programming job in another famously dodgy industry. I finished the job they wanted done and I was out the door literally half an our after I cleared my last ticket.
2 Likes
This was a well established company - I had no doubt they wanted me long term
'S cool. I’m installing a “guillotine” button at my desk after all.
/starts compulsively stabbing the empty space where the button will go
2 Likes
This adds a new dimension, seeing as London is looking to lose a lot of the EU rights as part of Brexit, and some companies are already looking at Frankfurt for relocation. “Stay here! Our traders have buttons that bring them champagne to their desk!”
In other words, it’s less about luring in drones than putting a show on for the marks- I mean, prospective clients.
3 Likes
The 100 years is not for the hedge fund, it’s for the building.
I think that’s actually worse.
I mean, London (and Soho in particular) is full buildings well over a 100 years old, which are still perfectly useable. Given that a lot of those were put up by the fly-by-night developers of the day, if they can last more than a 100 years, boasting that your shiny modern building is designed to last 100 years, doesn’t sound like much to me.
Fly-by-night developers may seem to have done a much better job on buildings than their modern equivalents, but that’s only because only the good ones are left standing.
3 Likes
It’s the stress that would kill me. Oops, that should have been a “+”, not a “-” - there goes $15 million dollars. And the ridiculously short deadlines for this with limited testing.
Honestly, it’s a tribute to the programmers in the field that there aren’t more reports of massive losses due to a programming error. I’d expect to hear about them on a daily basis.
And while it pays very well indeed, it doesn’t pay “do this for 5 years and retire for life” kind of well. I suspect only the people who live on stress survive the job.
Ha-ha, I don’t own any stocks either, so if these swine want to eat from the trough, it doesn’t affect me!
Except my (and many millions of Americans’) retirement 401(k)/403(b) is tied up in the stock market and has barely recovered from the hits it took in 2008-2009. Funny!
2 Likes
I wonder how much the “champagne is a best seller” phenomenon is like “diamonds are a best seller” or even “the bible is a best seller” though. It’s managed to become a socially enforced traditional requirement at so many ceremonial events that it isn’t really down to individual taste…
1 Like
It’s when the champagne buttons start going in that you know the next round of newly minted post-revolutionary aristocrats think that they’ve figured out the formula this time to avoid bringing on the next revolution. This time they really have figured out how to make cake cheap enough to feed the masses on it, and keep the frosting enticing enough to keep their own excesses off the chopping block.
2 Likes
I thought it was for the offices, as the edifice was a former police precinct. It’s hard to tell exactly what he is bragging will last for 100 years, though, as office layouts are notable for changing on a dime, systems become obsolete and need replacing, and so on.
Nah, it’s just hubris, really. Perhaps in as little as 50 years these buildings will be repurposed to residential towers when the London economy collapses (an unlikely but still possible future).
2 Likes
That is of course true. It was a bit of hyperbole for attempted comedic effect.
The history of London’s building control (and catastrophic failures thereof) is interesting but also tragic and depressing.
1 Like
I work on wall street. I don’t make obscene money. Most people who do make obscene money are actually pretty introverted. The “Wolf Of Wall Street” model people look at is there, but is getting smaller and smaller…those crazy frat-bro types are almost all gone and replaced by, for example, Indian and Asian Physics PHD students turned derivative traders (lots of permutations). You probably wouldn’t be able to spot them in the crowd. That jerk BMW driver who whizzes past you in a reckless manner? Probably some poor schmuck up to his/her eyeballs in debt and barely paying for the lease…and not an actually rich person. That being said, I will offer a couple things:
(1) The amount of money that some make is crazy to think about…but if you are making a $1-5M bonus check at the end of the year (rare but not super rare among the top traders in a good market), then it is likely based on you making multiples of order of more cashish for your hedge fund or bank (not so much the banks anymore though…thanks Dodd Frank!!.. I kid I kid…)…and for people producing so much revenue of their respective companies…stuff like champagne on demand is chump change. If the person is used to having such money, I guess having free pizza and coke isn’t going to suffice. You may lose that money-producing trader to another fund. And the hedge funds themselves want these money producers HUNGRY - so they want they, ideally, not conservatively putting a basket of wealth away in a trust fund for their kids…they want their talent buying Ferraris and such so that they have high debt to leverage and are hungry to work hard.
(2) There is a real argument that the world/economy/society IS NOT better off that such smart smart smart people are now producing paper profits on wall street because they will get more money than being a mid-level engineering manager at some company out in the boonies…BUT how can you argue against any particular individual from taking the cash? They mostly have families etc. and personal ambition (who doesn’t?). Though I really think this sort of capitalism is not what our founding fathers thought about… I think they were thinking about companies that make something. It is a hard discussion.
(3) Most of the people on wall street that are making lots of money are JUST PEOPLE. As difficult as it is to believe…these are mostly NOT THE TRUST FUND Babies that we think of as dirty rotten money snooty types. These are mostly (these days) hard fighting super smart people who through brain power and (yes, sure) luck have crawled, scratched, fought their way to the top (think PHD quant goes to wall street and gets rich). If at any point they stop making money for their companies, they will get fired. It really can get your blood pumping. It is really, ultimately, very primal…this is where all the wolf of wall street and liar’s poker narratives come from. you sort of have to be a super egocentric person w/ sharp nerves of steel to be able to do this sort of stuff (the vast majority, again, are just more conservative hedging based traders eeking out a slim profit…but the small minority upon which the wall street legend stories are based are really aggressive…and they need to be…and some of the mystique is what clouds the whole mystery of wall street).
That all being said…I think this company should really be aware of the “optics” of this sort of thing. Just do something more private in the future (like give the dude 5% more in their bonus check…like most of the more conservative shops would’ve’ done). And on the note of getting rich…I work hard and have ambition. I would like to get rich someday (and also enjoy life and family…etc. etc…the same as anyone else…and like it or not, that’s what America is all about…I think right? the ability to fulfill your dreams. ) There are many paths any of us can take…and I think it is unfair if we all say wall street is a bunch of worthless greedy bstrds unworthy…etc etc…anyone of us can choose their path to a large degree. There is some luck as to who your are born to. But becoming successful does not make one an a$$hole…only if one acts like an a$$hole, does one become an a$$hole. Having a “champagne button” is a blase distraction…which is irrelevant if you think about the money being made/spent in a relative sense. we should all be worrying less about this and more about congress wanting to give money to the rich and cut peoples healthcare.
Btw - I can guarantee - no one is “Mad Men style” drinking during the day on the trade floor…this so-called “Champagne Button” is likely there as a motivation tool…like if you do a million dollar trade or something, then you get to push the button and be a hero for a while…although I can totally see other conveniences being standard…and a good thing…like a “favorite coffee button”…they want you to stay seated at your desk, monitoring your job and trying to make the firm money…not spending 15 min or more out of your seat gabbing at the coffee station.
3 Likes
Disclaimer: My son in law works in Canary Wharf. He doesn’t make obscene amounts of money…just a lot. As you might guess, he’s a physicist.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb explains all this well. Want to make quite a lot of money with reasonable stability by working hard? Be a dentist or, nowadays, a programmer or computer modeller in investment banking/hedging. Because the outcomes of his work are so important and, basically, he must not screw up, said son in law works sensible hours, gets regular exercise and plenty of holidays. He has to keep his brain in peak condition. He’s not going to want a silly button.
Then there are the Ivy League/Oxbridge bankers. They own the assets. I know one of them and their attitude to life about money is this: it’s always going to be there, and in large amounts.
And, finally, the traders. These people can come from any background. They are intelligent, driven, but as @rocketace says, may well lack social skills. Some years they may get paid a lot. Other years they may lose. Possibly they will only make money for a short time (Taleb explains why in his books.) But over a career most of them will make less money than people in the first two groups. They are more like footballers than bankers.
But, your para 2. That really is a slippery slope argument. It justifies Putin, Assad, Saddam, Nixon, Stalin. How can you argue against any particular individual taking the cash? They mostly had personal ambition (who doesn’t?).
The present system has run into a major problem. The economy is not really expanding in the way that the banks would like. Growth opportunities are in economies like China and India, which are somewhat ringfenced. The result is asset bubbles: the phones are made in China but the asset bubble is in Cupertino. People run in circles making “money” but the basis on which the money is being made is very opaque.
I hope that we’re going to see a managed shrink of the bubbles, but 2008-9 gives small incentive to believe it.
4 Likes
I am with you all the way. I had said “BUT how can you argue against any particular individual from taking the cash? They mostly have families etc. and personal ambition” - but I was obviously talking about living w/in the law right…not about dictators…I meant, if someone gets a good lawful job, the how can you argue w/ his/her right to do so. is it more morally good to be a doctor or plumber…maybe maybe not. Is Wall Street good? (maybe…it provides a needed function, but is it money well invested…or are the Tesla’s and non-profits of the world better). I’m not sure how we got to Saddam, Nixon…I certainly don’t advise doing anything morally wrong (I don’t think earning lots of money is morally wrong…I should clarify!).
Also, I think, even if you are an obscene-wealth-hungry bloke…you will most likely hit the old age wall and tire of it at some point (most wall street-ers end up doing something else at some point).
You’ll notice I said sparkling wine. Not champagne. The driver is younger drinking and table wines rather than ostentatious, expensive vintage champagne.
The 20 buck bottle of docg prosecco will outsell the 150 buck bottle of year stamped champagne. Hell the prosecco would outsell the champagne at identical pricing. It’s lighter and crisper, which is where the trends at. The big vintage champagnes are rich and yeasty, doesn’t fit.
2 Likes
Ein art Todestrieb.
If you haven’t already read Gillian Tett’s Fools Gold, please do.
It’s almost as if they want to identify the sociopathic arseholes. So they can be promoted.
Disclaimer - reading that book may cause outbursts of rage and a desire to put your savings somewhere outside a merchant bank.
2 Likes
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
