You misspelled America…
Why should “southern culture” be entirely defined by white bigots. I refuse to let them dominate that any longer. If you, having lived in NC, only associate southern culture with white, racist culture, then maybe get out a bit more.
Yes, it would.
You left out a “white,” right there before “Southern.” That “lifestyle or heritage” you’re so concerned about is a white thing, a thing that white people who cling to want claim is instead a Southern thing. Which is exclusionary, partly because it’s a way of saying OUR STORY is The Southern Story. And so, it"s white supremacist, however much (some) such people try to claim otherwise. Do you really not have a problem with that?
Maybe because they’re brave people who won’t let hate and oppression dictate their life choices?
Places like this were/are also in the south:
But people forget that, because they either want to excuse racism, or excuse painting the whole south as the problem, so they can get away without doing any of the hard work of ending white supremacy.
i’m a white, middle-aged, 8th generation native of texas. my ancestors have been being born here so long if sam houston had lost the revolution i’d be mexican.
i’ve studied the history of the american civil war closely from the articles of secession, through the histories of the war written by participants from both sides, through visions and revisions of the meaning of that history over the past century.
those flags, the battle flag and the national flag of the confederate states of america, represent slavery and naked white supremacy. i’ve never heard anyone either speaking to me in person or in writing in an article, editorial, or book; whether relative, acquaintance, editorialist, or “historian” who spends their time lauding some romantic notion of “southern heritage” who wasn’t trying to sell me on slavery and/or naked white supremacy. and then there’s the legacy of all of those monuments to confederate leaders scattered around. most of them were erected during two main periods–the 1890s when segregated facilities became the law of the land through plessy v. ferguson, and during the 1950s when the civil rights movement started getting some momentum behind it.
hell, even the revolution that separated texas from mexico was promoted by wealthy white and hispanic land and slaveholders because mexico was starting to outlaw slavery. the taint and evil of white supremacy permeates so much of our history.
edited for spelling.
There are plenty of aspects of “Southern culture” that aren’t inherently for white people. So go ahead and drink that sweet tea, boogie all night long on Bourbon Street or cheer on that rocket launch!
But when you decide that the symbol of a bloody rebellion waged in the name of protecting slavery is representative of “Southern Culture” then you’re saying “the South belongs to white people.”
I think my problem is since I’m white and Southern if I use the terms history or culture that ticks enough boxes that I fit the stereotypical White Southern Rascist profile. I feel from this thread and others that the idea of “Southern” will never be separated from racism. If that is truly the case then time and ever shifting culture is the only thing I see that will eliminate all these issues. If everything about the South is always looking back to the Civil War then how likely will change occur? Eventually the things that I see that make the South what it is today, not what it was 150 years ago, will fade away as well.
Are you seriously arguing that the various CSA flags are a good way to represent the culture of the black people and native peoples and immigrants and non-whites of the south?
It’s a symbol intrinsically linked to the civil war. It has no rightful place in modern society outside of a museum.
You could just accept that using racist symbology is bad and just leave it at that.
If you want to help separate the concept of “Southern culture” from racism then you should be one of the people raising hell whenever someone claims that a Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern culture.
Also, seriously, you don’t need your own flag. It’s not like New England or the Pacific Northwest have flags to distinguish themselves from the rest of the country.
Because you’re not listening to the other southerners in the thread, maybe?
People (and by that I mean a great deal of white Americans, not just those of us in the south) need to come to terms with the past and stop pretending that the confederate flag is something other than what it is or that that is “southern culture” in totality?
Segregation officially ended in the 1960s. There are people still alive who knew people who were enslaved. This is not even past. It’s still with us. And too many whites are willing to argue that it’s ancient history because it makes them uncomfortable.
“Southern culture” is not only defined by white, racist culture. It’s not hard.
European royalty: The human equivalent of pugs.
Only not cute.
you noticed that too, eh?
especially if “southerners” keep jumping up and down while shouting “hey, over here!” symbol of white supremacy in one hand, bullhorn to holler out poorly camouflaged racist tropes romanticizing the antebellum era in the other.
that, obviously, would be too easy. /s
A kapo or prisoner functionary (German: Funktionshäftling) was a prisoner in a Nazi concentration camp who was assigned by the SS guards to supervise forced labor or carry out administrative tasks.
Also called “prisoner self-administration”, the prisoner functionary system minimized costs by allowing camps to function with fewer SS personnel. The system was designed to turn victim against victim, as the prisoner functionaries were pitted against their fellow prisoners in order to maintain the favor of their SS overseers. If they were derelict, they would be returned to the status of ordinary prisoners and be subject to other kapos. Many prisoner functionaries were recruited from the ranks of violent criminal gangs rather than from the more numerous political, religious, and racial prisoners; such criminal convicts were known for their brutality toward other prisoners. This brutality was tolerated by the SS and was an integral part of the camp system.
Prisoner functionaries were spared physical abuse and hard labor, provided they performed their duties to the satisfaction of the SS functionaries. They also had access to certain privileges, such as civilian clothes and a private room.[1] While the Germans commonly called them kapos, the official government term for prisoner functionaries was Funktionshäftling.
much as nikki haley may be considered ( by some * ) either " indian subcontinent swarthy " and therefore non caucasian or , perhaps , ’ aryan ’ and therefore super white ;
so too stephan miller may be considered either a " kapo " and therefore every day evil , or perhaps , a ’ capo ’ , and therefore super sinister evil
“Very fine people” on both sides, I hear tell. Including those who express pride in “Southern” lifestyle or heritage by waving a flag that they know symbolises the enslavement of African Americans and treachery against the United States as a whole.
There are plenty of things that symbolise the wonderful and rich culture and lifestyle of the South; that flag ain’t one of them.
Not necessarily. Flags don’t have to represent a racial (or other) majority. I’ll bet some clever designer or artist could come up with one that explicitly celebrates the true racial diversity of the South’s heritage. Although it’s far from guaranteed that “both sides” would like it.
It won’t be if “very fine people” there and elsewhere keep waving the stars-and-bars in celebration of a white supremacist regime.
I work in an industry known to be particularly prejudiced against women, big city folks from up North, non-Christians, vegetarians, etc. Why? Because I like paying my bills on time, and this happens to be work I do very well. It’s also a lot less dangerous and exhausting than many of the other jobs I’ve had.
People’s lives are not 2-dimensional. One reason I can tell you (from personally knowing a number of people who fall into this camp) for an African-American living in Chicago since their ancestors moved during the Great Migration to move ‘back’ down South is that either an elderly relative needs help (and the family cannot afford professional care) or someone has a baby and needs the free babysitting help so that they can continue to go to work. Poverty makes moving the cheapest option some times. You just hope you won’t be too seriously harmed by the greater prejudice.
Plus, one thing that’s becoming quite evident is that northern cities aren’t as safe for minorities as was hoped/believed. When the police are actively trying to kill you, taking your chances in a small town where at least you have family to rely on starts to sound pretty good.
But I don’t think that there is greater prejudice here than elsewhere in the country. Like other parts of the country, there are safer places for communities of color than others, and the history of segregation meant that there were opportunities to carve out those safe spaces over time, so they are deeply and well-established. And you’re spot on about the safety of northern cities, which quickly became segregated in the 30s - 60s, and those problems continue to shape the experiences of minority communities today.
There has always been a problem with making the south the only part of the country that has racism, because that was never the case.
I always recommend this course of action when discussing what caused the Civil War. It is depressing indeed to find so many who have not a clue.
The Imperials were slavers.
Last night, I listened to this podcast–
In which the historian Brenda Wineapple explained Andrew Johnson’s Unionist sympathies. (20m55s.)
“Slavery is better protected in the union, than outside it.”
