I think it’s very possible to not be a racist but to vote for someone for other reasons. For example, someone might vote for Trump solely because he promised lower taxes, or better healthcare (har har), or a vastly improved economy. They themselves may not be the slightest bit racist, but were so intent on their single issue that they were comfortable with their candidate’s racism on other issues. Or they may fully believe that Trump is truly not racist, which Fox and Breitbart love to remind us.
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Isn’t that a bit like saying “I’m ok with racism (or racists being in charge) as long as I personally pay less in taxes?” which pretty much makes you a supporter of racism for personal gain which pretty much makes you a racist in my view. I’m a simple man so I may be wrong about all of this but it seems pretty straight forward.
Doesn’t this bring us back to them being ignorant of the truth and willfully remaining so by ignoring all presented evidence? The argument of ignorance seems disingenuous since evidence is being ignored willfully which indicates knowledge of but refusal to recognize evidence which contradicts their view.
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On the last point: many/some Trump supporters commonly hold three beliefs-
- They are not racist
- Trump is not racist
- They all are Nationalists
Racism is a problem that stems much deeper than we might want to believe; its ingrained in our culture and every day we have to actively resist the urge to take the mental path of least resistance, generalizing the most complicated organizational structures that we know of. That said, I have made a generalization in this post, however my rationale is that being a Trump supporter is prescribing to an ideology with certain tenets, and it requires a certain perspective to align with those tenets.
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I’m clearly the sole person with a wee bit of faith that not all Trump voters are inherently racist people, so I’ll bow out of this argument.
Thanks for the discussion. I don’t know who is right here. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle which would make your view more realistic. Our discussion helped me to pair down my thoughts on the subject to a few key points so for me it was a productive back and forth.
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I guess I’ll put it this way: it is entirely possible that the minority of Americans who voted for him are, indeed, both inherently racist and complicit in Trump’s ongoing xenophobia.
But I would sincerely hope, and will continue to hope, that the actual percentage is smaller than that, and that even many Trump voters are better than their candidate. And that some of those who were duped deeply regret their ignorance. But I am known to be quite naive.
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Just stay away from places like Mississippi and Alabama. Beautiful places but they may break your generous heart.
My point, sad as it may be, is that some degree of racism on some level, conscious or unconscious, has become the default setting after it saturating our society for so long. People don’t have to be overtly racist, they just have to not resist the urge to generalize based on ethnicity.
It’s like opening a file on a computer, if you just double click (or whatever Mac users do), the file will be read using the default program, you have to right click and specifically choose a different way of reading the file for it to be viewed in any other way. On a computer, you can select a new default program, but with the brain, you have to actively try and think differently for a long time for anything to change, if ever. The importance of critical thinking, is that we are critical of what and how we think about things, because the easiest thing to do, is not to even notice that we are choosing the default setting.
Do I think (x) because (y)?
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That’s the nerdiest thing you’ve ever said, just FYI. 
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Uninducted co-conspirators.
Obama has already been blamed for everything from the 2008 recession to friggin’ 9/11. I can guarantee you they’ll blame their shitty health care overhaul on him too. “The ACA was just so terrible for so long that we had no choice but to make hard decisions about how to salvage anything at all from its flaming wreckage.”
I think the key difference here is that a lot of the infuriating stuff that Clinton “got away with” only really existed in the apoplectic minds of far-right Republicans, and getting away with something you haven’t actually done is super easy. Meanwhile, the current administration has been churning out real, actual corruption, incompetence, bigotry, and lies on an almost daily basis for months now, and the asshole still has a 39% approval rating. It’s one thing to fall into despair because nobody is taking your moon landing conspiracy theory seriously, it’s quite another to get increasingly baffled and despondent when factually scandal-worthy material is brushed aside like it’s no big deal.
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There is another voter who hasn’t been discussed here-the one who strongly disliked BOTH major candidates, but hated Trump just a wee bit less than Hillary. Or who is such a Conspiracy Theorist that he cannot vote for her, even though he knows Trump to be probably bad. Or who recently lost his job to an overseas move, and thinks Trump is the only way to get it back.
Just because a voter is illogical, doesn’t make him a racist.
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Oh, man, you don’t hang around me enough…
Though I did have someone OVER ESTIMATE how big of a dork I am.
We had this thing at work where you were supposed to tell 2 facts and 1 lie about yourself and people had to guess the lie. One fact was I had a scholarship from Starfleet.
Someone was confused because when they asked what it was for, I said “Graphic Design”. They assumed it would have been for some Star Trek related thing like learning Klingon.
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If you boil it down to the very basics, there are only a few possible camps and none are good camps to be in:
- The white nationalists and other cartoonish racists
- The well-read top 10% of incomes that go out of their way to misunderstand or ignore any social issue
- Prolific readers and believers of propaganda and conspiracy
- Low information voters trapped in a propaganda cycle so deeply they don’t even know it
- Fanatic republicans who only care their “team” “wins”
- Complete imbeciles
Of this list the first three items are unquestionably racist. The real problem is no one wants to admit this election showed how many racists there are in the US and how many will fight tooth and nail to enable them if it means maintaining their personal wealth.
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What part of “when you’re a star you can do anything” is bragging about his victims rather than himself?
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That does sound about right. When you can’t tell two things apart no matter how different they become, you’re probably not going to be much help to anyone.
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That’s why I’m very doubtful that it will actually happen. Lots of posturing, a few nominal changes, but otherwise little change.
There’s a reason why people who oppose these sorts of benefits use the term ‘ratchet’.
Or, I’m wrong, they stick by their principles and repeal a lot of these benefits, and a significant number of Republicans stay home next election and they lose.
But my main point is that it hasn’t happened yet. And during that time, low information voters (i.e. most) won’t likely change their base opinion.
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I’m pretty certain that if Clinton had been Republican, I’d have been mad as anything that he had been caught dead to rights lying under oath, which is pretty damn serious, and nobody cared. Of course, he’s not, and I think the whole thing was ridiculous.
As for Trump - all the incompetence hasn’t actually resulted in nuclear war (yet) or the establishment of the Fourth Reich (yet). For all the corruption, he hasn’t actually been caught with a briefcase full of thousand dollar notes (yet). So for the vast majority, it’s just noise at the same level as Clinton’s gaffe.
Really, when it comes down to it, I suspect that my despair is that most people don’t care about what I care about.
And for the most part, it looks like most voters are cemented into their parties. Makes sense to me. If I was American and Stalin was the Democrat choice, I’d still not be voting Republican. I can’t imagine most Republicans are any different. (Thank God for a three part system in Canada…)
As an aside, I find myself wondering…
I suspect Trump will be one of the least effective Republican presidents in terms of getting policy passed simply because he’s so incompetent. Yet I find him far more upsetting that someone who would likely be far more effective at getting bad policies put through. Is this because the symbolic victory of the forces of everything I despise are far more important to me than the actual damage that those policies would inflict?
I’m beginning to suspect so.
Not certain I’m happy about that.
Their point is that you’re wrong, and bizarrely ignorant.
If, after Trump’s first 100 days, you still think that liberals and conservatives are “the same”, then either you’re using some weird metric to measure life on the planet earth that the rest of humanity isn’t, you’re a moron, or you’re driving trollies. Maybe all three!
No, liberals don’t see freedom as “the enemy”. No, liberals don’t see the public as “the enemy”.
No, Trump isn’t a hero because he grabbed some pussy when he had the chance.
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You understand that @chenille didn’t just draw that cartoon about your “mind-blowing” concept in the minutes after you posted it, right? Simple-minded Libertarians – especially those who haven’t yet graduated from “political spectrum” to “political compass” – have been pushing that false equivocation for a long time now.
Fortunately, your “help” isn’t required by the educated liberals laughing at you here, although I’m sure conservatives (especially bigoted and sexist ones) appreciate it.
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