NYPD arrest human rights lawyer for waiting outside a restaurant while her kids used the bathroom


#141

You fail at understanding systemic racism and kyriarchy.


#142

Well, broken windows, you know. When you let visual evidence of low-level crimes hang around, it encourages more crimes. And everybody knows that visible black people are evidence of a place being sketchy.


#143

The link goes to a page that assumes that you have “started” the test…
Here is the page where one needs to start:
ProjectImplicit


#144

Thank you for posting the better link :smile:


#145

I fully endorse firing the officer - or bashing his head in.


#146

Says the white, middle-aged man.

Hey everyone… just stop feeding him. Go read his “contributions” in this thread:

There he’s “kindly” contributed 26 of the 128 posts. That’s 26 of his 42 posts on here since July last year. Just fuck off you sad, ignorant troll.


#147

And you are aware that street protests are not allowed to disrupt sidewalk traffic?

Yeah, only non-disruptive protests allowed!!!1!

I think you have large misunderstandings on the design an intention of protests.


#148

To be fair, I think the entire world would exchange our cops for European cops.

Meanwhile, in America (this was a related video of that other one) African American mother refuses to pull over for a minor traffic violation, attending backup officers think it’s OK to open fire on a car full of minors.

America: You fucking suck ass sometimes.


#149

interesting test. i’d love to see the demographic breakdown in terms of the race and gender of respondents. i showed a slight tendency to favor african-americans over european-americans. as a middle-aged white teacher in texas this might at least partially explain why my interactions with the black students at my school, a grade 4-6 intermediate campus, tend to be more positive than those of most of the other white teachers. i can live with that.


#150

That the woman was standing on the sidewalk isn’t controversial.

She may have been observed leaving the demonstration area. This is one of the aforementioned unknowns.

Stands to reason that in a majority black community, blacks will have more police encounters.

You are going to have to explain this reference to me. Are you implying that only whites commit crime?


#151

And the point that all of us who are challenging you are trying to make, is that “realist” or “pragmatic” compliance at the expense of actually exercising constitutionally protected rights, is automatically excusatory, full stop. If the “reality” is that we as citizens cannot exercise protected rights, then we in reality do not have these rights, and that is INexcusable, full stop.

I completely understand what you’re saying - don’t get arrested while we try to sort things out, rather than get arrested by being stubborn or confrontational. But this would require an actual surrendering of our rights until/if things ever are, in fact, sorted out. And if we do this, the authorities have zero impetus to ever get this sorting sorted. Compliance = surrender. That isn’t a principle, THAT is actual reality. Compliance means the authorities never need to change, because we’re complying. The only reason both sides have any reason to reconcile, if because there IS a conflict, which neither side actually enjoys or thrives upon.


#152

It’s also irrelevant. Standing by yourself on the sidewalk does not become a crime because you were at a demonstration earlier, especially if that demonstration was lawful.

It’s also unknown whether the police officer was on crack at the time he arrested her, whether he is a racist, and how often he beats his wife/girlfriend. The factors are just as speculative as whether she seen leaving the protest, but are actually more relevant to why she may have been arrested.

It does, but it doesn’t stand to reason that blacks make up 67% of the population but are 86% of the drivers pulled over. Whites are 29% of the population but only 13% of those stopped. This is, by definition, what it means when I say blacks are more likely to be pulled over than whites (if I meant that more blacks are pulled over than whites, that’s what I would have said).

Ferguson population by race:

Ferguson traffic stops by race:

Like I said (in text you actually quoted), a greater percentage of whites that are stopped are actually found to have criminal contraband (22% of blacks who are stopped have contraband, while 34% of whites do). To those with reasonable reading comprehension, this doesn’t imply that only whites commit crimes, but does suggest that for some reason blacks are being disproportionately targeted for stops even though the whites that are stopped are more likely to be criminals.


#153

As silly as a black man thinking he’s treated differently because he’s black. What’s the percentage of black men in New York?


#154

I used to have to be the one to flag down cabs whenever I was hanging out with my cousin’s partner. Every time. I witnessed his inability to get a cab, anywhere in Manhattan, no matter how well dressed he was or what time of day it happened to be. It’s quite real.


#155


#156

As John Oliver pointed out, of course the whites have more contraband in their cars. They don’t get pulled over all the time. :slight_smile:


#157

Great, finally, something we agree on. But the woman told us she had just left the protest… so there is that. I’m willing to accept her testimony up to this point, how about you?

@daneel

Kinda neat how you( or BuzzFeed ) ignored the arrest rate. The function for contraband rate is dependent on the arrest rate. In other words, when white people are arrested 34.04% of the time( in Ferguson ) its because they are possessing contraband( weed, meth, etc ). But, when blacks are arrested its, 79.29% of the time its for reasons other thanthan possessing contraband*.

Nice try, though. ‘A’ for effort.

Side note, I love it when people forget to put Asians and Hispanics on graphs when trying to demonstrate a bias in incarceration rates or, in this case, ‘contraband rates’.

Remember kids, what is not being said is as important as what is.

*EDIT: For those with reasonable math comprehension. :stuck_out_tongue:


#158

You’re willing to accept her testimony about everything she says that happened before her arrest, but not about anything she says that happened during her arrest? How generous.

As I said above, it is irrelevant whether she was seen leaving the protest. For one, I have seen no claims the protest was unlawful. For two, and more importantly, having been at a protest at an earlier point doesn’t make standing on the sidewalk an arrestable offense (and the officer didn’t say she was being arrested for having been at the protest).

Hey, let’s look at the link you provided:

Note that, as the pdf itself says, the contraband hit rate is dependent on searches, not arrests. And, even if it was true that the contraband hit rate is dependent upon arrests, you would still have it backwards when you say that they are arrested because of contraband possession (in this case the arrests would be dependent upon the contraband hit rate, as opposed to your claim that the “contraband rate is dependent on the arrest rate”). But thanks for the numeracy tips.

Now, it’s true that the numbers indicate that the most common justification for the searches is “search incident to arrest.” The problem is that many of these arrest warrants are for “crimes” that disproportionately affect poor black folk: routine traffic infractions (which blacks incur at much higher rates than whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc. due to their higher stop rates) are converted into arrest warrants when they are unable to pay the traffic fines (see NYT link below). For illustration, 369 of the 483 blacks arrested were for outstanding warrants (76%), whereas for whites the numbers were 14/36 (39%). (I used the arrest numbers from page 1 of your pdf, since adding all the arrest categories on page 2 resulted in significantly higher total arrest numbers, suggesting some people were arrested for multiple reasons; using the numbers from page 2 resulted in 55% of black arrestable offenses being outstanding warrants, and 30% for whites.) Furthermore, note that officers have no idea if there is an outstanding warrant at the time they pull someone over, so arrests on outstanding warrants bear no reflection on whether someone is initially pulled over because of profiling or a legitimate and unbiased observation of criminality, and that these arrest-based warrants have no bearing on criminality at the time of the arrest.

But any way you look at it, blacks are being searched and/or arrested even though they are less likely to have criminal contraband or be immediately engaged in arrestable conduct (other than having an outstanding warrant). This plausibly suggests that blacks are being targeted for stops and searches for minor infractions that whites aren’t being targeted for: the police are using pretextual stops as a way to leverage race-based searches and/or hope they get lucky and there’s an outstanding warrant. This is consistent with everything we know about how race is used in law-enforcement. This interpretation is also consistent with a recent NYT article detailing how Ferguson has so many arrest warrants for very minor infractions, to the extent that there are 1.5 times as many outstanding arrest warrants issued in Ferguson every year as there are people. And this isn’t just external interpretation of what is going on in Ferguson, as the City Council “announced sweeping changes to its court system, which had been criticized as unfairly targeting low-income blacks, who had become trapped in a cycle of unpaid tickets and arrest warrants.”

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/ferguson-and-the-debtors-prison.html

[quote=“TrollsOpinion, post:157, topic:40591”]
Side note, I love it when people forget to put Asians and Hispanics on graphs when trying to demonstrate a bias in incarceration rates or, in this case, ‘contraband rates’. [/quote]
Take a look at the “Disparity Index” in the pdf you attached, which I have excerpted for the second time, below. This disparity index shows whether people are under-represented or over-represented in stops given their proportion of the population. The disparity index for non-black minorities is virtually identical to the index for whites, and very different than the index for blacks. Also look at the raw numbers for non-black minorities in the pdf you attached: the tiny relative sample size for non-black minorities makes meaningful analysis of the numbers difficult. There were 686 stops of whites, 4632 stops of blacks, and 66 stops of all other races combined. But to the extent these numbers allow for meaningful analysis, we see that non-black minorities are not discriminated against, but are treated the same as whites, yet blacks are discriminated against.

As for the specific contraband hit rates you are talking about, there were exactly two searches of non-black minorities in which contraband could be discovered. That neither of these two searches turned up contraband is hardly surprising even assuming the 34% white hit rate, but once again the tiny sample size would make analysis of this spectacularly stupid.

Here’s one thing that’s not being said: why it is legally relevant to Huq’s arrest whether or not she was seen leaving a lawful protest. Since I’ve addressed your complaints about things I left unsaid, I’m sure you’ll respond.


#159

You are conflating generalities (which you are not totally incorrect in your appraisal of) with specific circumstances.

As I’ve said elsewhere, if you want to protest the incorrect and illegal behaviour of the cops when they order you to do something unconstitutional and risk getting yourself shot, be my guest.


#160

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