Obama to schools: let transgender kids use the bathroom matching their gender


#69

Sure but AFAIK, toilets in restaurants weren’t made unisex by presidential order.


#70

Was it something along the lines of “If people are allowed to identify as something different than their birth gender, then I should be able to identify as a Native American and get me some of that Casino money?” Because that’s one I’ve heard tossed around lately and I find it a less-than-convincing argument.


#71

They weren’t this time, either.

The DoJ is suing the state of NC over House Bill 2 to protect existing civil rights. The suit states, very straightforwardly, two important things:

  • transgender men are male, and transgender women are female.
  • if your established gender identity is male, you should use a men’s room. If your gender identity is female, you should use a women’s room.

The talk about unisex bathrooms is something created by the conservative media (and articles like this one) as the possible end result of all the legal wrangling. The Obama administration isn’t requesting only unisex bathrooms, requiring it, or even mentioning it as a preference.


#72

The difference here is that there are established federal guidelines already in place as to who gets to identify as various races. In the case of Native Americans, it varies from tribe to tribe, but you aren’t allowed to simply declare yourself a Native. Every tribe has their own requirements, mostly involving proving your ancestry to be at least 1/8 or 1/16 Native, or census records showing your ancestry. For gender, so far, we’re in the early days of establishing it as a fluid concept, which wasn’t a big problem until some dickwads got their proverbial panties in a bunch about where people are allowed to pee.


#73

I spoke with my partner. Most of the ones they can come up with are more adult-centric and not really teenager appropriate. One that they did recommend is the TV Series I Am Jazz which they describe as being about a young teen girl and her family. The cool part is the family is comfortable with her transition. There’s also a made for TV movie with a similar title that’s far more of a documentary.

They do mention that they know of far more print materials, with a bit of a US bias. If you’re interested, please send me a message and I’ll get you a list. Good luck; it sounds like you’re doing parenting right!


#74


That post got 32 likes, even at #66 in the thread!


#76

I thought that was this:


#77


#78

Here on Long Island, we have a group called LIGALY:

http://www.lgbtnetwork.org/ligaly

It is an excellent support for teens. My daughter is involved with the LGBT+ group at her school and this organization supports them. If you do not know of a similar organization near you, I would contact them to see if they know of a national organization that supports them that may have a branch in your area.


#79

If someone states that they identify as a gender different than that of their birth, is it appropriate to inquire as to their motivation??


#80

Someones sex is not just decided by whether you have an X or Y chromosome. the foetus also needs to get the right hormones at the right time.

Nature gots it right about 99% of the time, but we are talking about the people where it doesn’t go right. There is evidence that Supernumary Phantom Limb syndrome exists, and I see no reason why penises and labias/vaginas are not affected in the same way (my personal experiences say that they are, but that is just anecdotal).

I have said before that I believe that Gender Dysphoria is an intersex condition, caused in a similar way to other intersex conditions. There does seem to be a far higher incidence of physical intersex conditions in trans people.

If you can show that there is a similar way for people to be born as a different ethnic group than what is thought at birth, then go right ahead and show us.


#81

Motivation makes it sound like you think they’re freely making a choice, which means you didn’t believe them when they stated that “they identify as a gender different than that of their birth”.


#82

Considering that there are almost no social, financial or legal advantages to claiming a different gender than your birth gender I’d say “almost certainly not.”

The only exception I’d make are the obvious trolls, like those assholes from the “American Family Association” who are now sending cisgendered men into women’s restrooms in some twisted attempt to make some kind of point.


#83

Exactly; transgendered people have been using the restroom they belong in for decades, but nobody’s ever raised an issue about it, because there’s nothing to be concerned about. Quite frankly, it’ll be far stranger when transgendered people (such as Shawn Stinson) are legally forced to use the restroom of their birth gender.


#84

Why would I care? Why would anyone care? If they present as any particular gender I don’t see any likelihood of the restroom/locker room monitor demanding a DNA examination. Do you?


#85

So it’s OK for a group to discriminate if they are native Americans? Because I have to tell you that transgender folk ancestry and census records will show something very different from what they self-identify as. Civil rights are civil rights.


#86

Well, now there’s an argument I hadn’t thought of.


#87

No, I didn’t say that. Native Americans limit their membership to blood descendants of actual Natives because of the federal aid and scholarships available to Native tribes. If anyone could decide they were a Shawnee because they really like their culture, then any white person could collect aid or scholarships, yes?


#88

You bet. And what’s wrong with that compared to denying someone their civil rights?


#89

I have already talked about how trans people can be intersex (which is a medical condition).

Can you show a similar way of how you can be Native American without being of Native American descent?