Old school punk rockers' message to young'uns: 'Fuck Youth'

Then I partial agree with you on that… I just think it’s not just the technology driving cultural creations/ideas. Sometimes it’s the other way round.

Maybe… I think the future is rarely predicted and is more shaped by the culture we used to live in in the past. Continuum.

Indeed! Our brains are not great for accurately reconstructing the past, I’m afraid. We’re always seeing it through our own subjectivity.

But that’s the problem - what’s authentic to one person isn’t to another. Authenticity belongs in the hall of subjectivity as part of human experience. It’s hard to weigh and measure that. What you and I might see as inauthentic crap might be the thing that saves someone else’s life.

I don’t think we are, but I think maybe authenticity is made up inbetween people. For us regulars here, we’re having an authentic experience on the BBS. But an outsider trolley type will show up, call us libtards, proclaim MAGA, and get kicked out, and see us as existing entirely in the wrong way - to them, we are inauthentic because of what we believe. They think they are living the most righteous and authentic life possible, going from message board to message board to stick it to the libtards.

I grapple with authenticity, because it’s a strong feeling and my suspicion is that it’s part and parcel of the rise of mass culture in the first place. maybe it all goes back to good old Walter Benjamin and the entire concept of mechanical reproduction in the first place? Maybe we need to go back to that and maybe to some Gramsci too and wrestle with both of them a little bit more.

Or when it never materializes, you can look back and say “wow, Mindysan isn’t so dumb!” :wink:

To be fair, that can be the PERCEPTION of poseurs, right? Because sometimes it’s the ingroup attempting to keep out those they think don’t belong. That conceptuatlization can cut both ways, because it can be used to both protect the ingroup but also to punish people who the ingroup decides doesn’t belong.

I don’t know. I try not to make assumptions about people, I guess? For me I try to let people tell me who they are, which can be a hard thing to do. Our natural tendency is to make assumptions based on outward appearances, and sometimes that’s not accurate (although sometimes it is). But I also guess that it doesn’t bother me so much when I see people with shirts of bands they probably don’t listen to.

But were they outside of the industry - they were on Top of the Pops, right? And initially EMI picked them up? But most certainly, them touring shithole clubs and playing for small audiences influenced a lot of individuals to go start bands. But they also weren’t the only ones who did that.

I don’t know… but the way you’re talking about the Sex Pistols, it kind of reminds me of how baby boomers talk about seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan (at least American boomers - for British Boomers, it was probably some different way of seeing them for the first time). It reminds me that I think that all the postwar generations probably have more in common than different.

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No, we don’t need to… you’re welcome to have that argument without me, I suppose. :wink:

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He has always been a sellout/in it for the money and has always up front about it too.

I was thinking about his all night because i didn’t mean to slag Star Trek. What I meant to say was not just that i didn’t think fanciful technologies had much impact on the development of real technologies, but also to say that I think Star Trek had real impacts.

So to me, Roddenberry didn’t so much influence the iPad, but instead the biggest impact he had was to sell us on a future where things we better, where we resolved our major intrahuman conflicts and treated each other with respect. To my eyes, something Start Trek seems sort of overtly misogynist and racist (and, as my comment above, it’s super gender essentialist) because they play up some stereotypes. But for the time it was made? They were pushing things in a forward direction harder than a lot of people thought they could be pushed.

And he didn’t just imagine that fancifully, he and Nichelle Nichols and the rest of the cast and crew actually delivered it. That wasn’t a wacky sci-fi from Roddenberry’s imagination. There were exciting things going on all around him that those ideas came out of, and he delivered them into a public that was been prepared to receive them by the civil rights movement. So that’s how I see that idea of the adjacent possible pushing things forward.

(While i was trying to find this image, I ran across a story I hadn’t heard about that first interracial kiss on television. Apparently William Shatner intentionally flubbed all the other takes where they tried to do something less explicit to make sure the full on kiss made it to air. It’s important (for me) to remember that it took subterfuge to even get that on air in that political climate.)

I actually disagree with this. I definitely see a distinction between people who come across as authentically and people who just present opinions inauthentically for the purpose of getting a rise out of people. Of course the people who are just trying to incite liberal tears still have an authentic self, and maybe that idea of trying to hurt other people’s feelings is a very authentic thing. But the positions they actually present? They don’t believe or care about any of it. They aren’t engaging in an authentic way, they are putting up a false front to try to use other people to their ends.

And it may sounds absurd that I think I can tell the difference because they should be indistinguishable. But if you’ve watched me interact with everyone from Gamer Gate trollies, to our anti-“cultural marxism” interloper in the marxist thread, to trump supporters, to dunning-kruger classical economists, I think I have a pretty good record.

That’s the wonderful thing about positing that something might happen. You can’t ever be proven wrong!

Anyway, BBS has suggested that I’ve said enough, so thanks for the conversation. Historians are the most interesting people!

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Salty old comment

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Yup. The Sex Pistols were, absolutely, a manufactured boy band, just like their contemporaries the Bay City rollers. McLaren was taking the piss by doing it, but it doesn’t change what they were.

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Yeah, it’s not as if a previous generation’s pop culture should be unknown pleasures to today’s youth.

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Neither of my teenagers have any interest in current music. My 18 year old son lives for late 60’s-early 70’s country rock like CCR, Eagles and Neil Young. My 15 yo daughter describes her tastes as “90’s alternative”. Had I been interested in the music from 50 years earlier as a teen I guess I’d have been listening to Al Jolson!

There’s a good case that the music of my youth WAS truly superior. I rarely hear anything new today that doesn’t sound derivative of something from 65-85. How many “punk” bands sound “just like” The Clash? Are there current sounds as distinctive as the Heads, B-52’s or Gang of 4 (my all-time fave)?

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Yet, I think Lydon and Matlock were entirely serious. Mclaren himself saw it as culture jamming and fancied himself a kind of situationist.

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The flip of the handwritten signs should be a clue, as it is a rip off of an ia video done by some Jewish guy from Hibbing done over 50 years ago.

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A one world state as human freight?

Happy to have, not to have not, right?

Nevertheless, I always had the impression that he disliked assholes. Obviously not so much, I guess.

Yea, as @m_a_t points out, in this case she coulnd’t name a single song.

So yea, I am kind of offended that the musical statements I found meaningful as a youth have been effectively reduced to advertising collateral…

Yes, I would.

A little bit before Borders closed down I was getting a coffee and two of the millennials behind the counter were talking. One was telling the other of this book called “1984” in which, as she put it, “people thought we’d be living in some kind of surveillance state by now…”

And yes, that was a big WFT moment for me!

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I’m sure there’s a lot of good music out there, but I haven’t found any really effective ways of finding it. The modern panacea of “curation” only works well if there are curators you like, and it has been hard to find them.

Ah, heck, I was just funnin’, see? Someone had to make that crack.

I agree on all points but I do find myself frequently frustrated by not being able to discover new music that I actually want to spend money on (although, we’ve switched to streaming in our family, so I guess everyone I listen to is getting a bit of our subscription - um, right?).

I swear, I think I’m one of the few people who regularly buys physical media any more… I mean, it can’t just be me, my family, and all those hipsters, can it? And we buy newer bands too, not just older bands releasing new material… I’ve been digging the Tune-Yards and St. Vincent, Run the Jewels… my daughter really like the band Daughter (which she learned about watching anime music videos) and BabyMetal from Japan… All of which we bought on CD or Vinyl pretty recently… wait, not Tune-yards yet, cause their new one either just came out or is about to come out.

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I think I’m one of the few people who regularly buys physical media

Regularly? yeah, you are probably in the minority. I do still buy LPs from time to time. We don’t have a working cd player in the house anymore, just a record player which the kids dig, although the last time I took them to the record store (our town’s only one!) they insisted on getting Imagine Dragons, which falls squarely in the dreck category for me, so yeah, fuck youth.

I was dubious at first that I would think it was worth it, but the streaming subscription has been good for us. We listen to more music.

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When I can afford it. Sadly I don’t have the disposable income I had in my 20s.
I did get this for xmas from the wife. Amazing obscure and really cool Krautrock find.
https://www.discogs.com/Galactic-Explorers-Epitaph-For-Venus/release/939158

Now a days it still gets ripped and ends up in shuffle play after a few listens.

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