Paul Krugman explains why Tesla is like Bitcoin

start-rant
Lithium while not common is common enough, making up about 0.002% of the crust, but lithium mines aren’t. Supply is driven by demand is relatively inelastic when it requires permitting and large scale infrastructure. Lithium demand tripled between 1995 and 2010, and has tripled again in the last 2 years. There isn’t a single mined material that can keep up with this level of change in demand (unless there are mothballed mines lying around aka gold). Nickel and manganese have the same issue. There are some bigish gold mines, which have suddenly found out that they are actually nickel mines with a side of gold & copper. The good news is that pretty much every proven spodumene reserve is currently undergoing mining licensing and there will be an explosion in production in 3-5 years. Batteries have supply side scaling issues, but we know how to scale.
With current R&D in high silicon batteries, and solid state batteries, the energy storage vale of a kg of lithium is constantly increasing, and obviously it can be recycled. Something like a sodium-sulphur battery would turn all this on its head, but that’s just R&D at the moment.

Now, hydrogen, as H2 is a disaster to deal with. It is either handled high pressure, cryogenic, or both. It is leaky, it causes damage to pipes, and is flammable (and explosive) over a really wide range of mixtures, it burns clear and is hard to scent.
For H2 fuel cells to be mass market that are platinum free because platinum is not common (0.0000015% of the earths crust).
It may be really useful as a heat source in industrial settings, as a replacement for natural gas, but I suspect that it will end up becoming natural gas, H2->CH4 as it’s easier to store and ship.
Another path for hydrogen is ammonia, which could be awesome, but the H2 → NH3 pipeline (at scale) and ammonia fuel cells are well still in the early days.

You will notice that nobody talks about H2->CH4 or H2->NH3 because they whole hydrogen economy thing is mostly a green fig leaf over the natural gas industry and the ‘blue hydrogen’ concept, which is hot garbage.

Now, why would you value Polstar (Geely), BYD, Telsa over GM, Toyota, Volkswagen? Forgetting Musk because he’s just a distraction, history says, that when a core technology changes in an established market, the incumbents die. Paul Krugman, as a economist knows full well why Apple and Samsung destroyed Nokia and Sony-Ericsson, and Apples value is higher than Nokia ever was. It’s not ‘network effect’ BS, it’s not ‘bad management’, it’s the economic trap of trying to move a business that’s optimised for making component A (e.g. engines and gear boxes) of product X (e.g. car) to making component B (e.g battery packs, and motors) of product X (e.g. car). The crown jewels for most car companies are their engine plants, gear box design and manufacture, car assembly, and the design studio and engineering. It is exceptionally rare for a care company to out source these. In the EV future, assembly and design have a lot of value (but you may need different skill sets), but the engine and gearbox side of the business are a liability and will drag down the whole business.

We saw this with Kodak and digital cameras (Kodak were optimised for making film).
We saw it with literally every car company when they replaced horses, trams and bikes.
We saw this with hydraulic excavators replacing steam shovels (which blows my mind).

Now, the other super weird thing is, the new business always seem to be more prosperous than the business that they beat out, especially during the steep part of a transition.

So, why might some people value BYD as 2 x GM, because BYD offers a product that has higher value to the end user (electric cars), and only has to grow what it already does, while GM has to build and sell more (electric) cars, while also down sizing their core competencies, and service a debt on assets that are losing money, and get more money to build up it’s new competencies. They are fcuked.

Oh, and why will EV’s take over? They have more value to the end user and society as a whole. They offer energy independence on a personal and state level, improve the environment at a micro and macro level, are more reliable, and are generally nicer to use.
end-rant

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But surely, it was function well as a means of value storage and exchange any minute now! /s

Waiting Patiently GIF by General Hospital

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The subprime mortgage crises was the crash in the 2008 timeframe. In the 90s, it was the dot-com run-up. But you’re generally hearing right, too much money chasing too few goods, or in this case, investments. Speculating is a more accurate word. An even better term is gambling.

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Is it just me, or does he look like Lindell - the Pillow guy?

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No, Tesla is definitely in it for profit, but I think you’re reading around Krugman’s point.

2022 was the first year that Tesla actually turned a profit that wasn’t largely attributed to emissions credits. It had LOST more value than the value of all the other automaker combined and it still larger than the entire automotive industry. It’s P/E ratio was once over 100 whereas the average is around 15.

The valuation of the stock was insane, and it’s still overpriced despite crashing. The P/E is still above 36. Krugman’s point was that the value greatly exceeded the actual value die to lies and hype just like Bitcoin, which is true.

Bitcoin does have a value, but it is much, much less than currently valued, just like Tesla.

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Thank you. If it wasn’t for that I am not sure Tesla would have made it. And yet he whines about the government and taxes. Just another Libertarian who moans about the government, but somehow can’t see how the government has been a central part of either their direct success or that the government has developed (i.e. big money donors creating laws and more to make it easier for them to keep all the money they make and screw everyone else) policies, tax laws, etc that make it better for them. Sociopaths and/or children.

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If we keep making the crappy batteries that we made in 2022, that would possibly be true, but battery technology is changing all the time.

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Kodak invented digital photography. They were a poorly run company for at least 30 years that managed to be profitable because they had huge brand recognition and as a result owned most of the film and photographic paper market. Digital photography basically destroyed Eastman Kodak because they walked away from the technology, refusing to accept that the film, paper and photochemicals market would shrink to insignificance.

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I guess a good question is, will the same thing happen to auto manufacturers? I suspect that the answer is “no”. First off because it’s not clear to me that any upstart car company (e.g., Tesla, Rivian) is exceptionally well-run, but also because there are a lot of companies that have weathered other bulk technology changes. That said, I’m sure some companies won’t survive the change to electric due to Kodak-like short-sightedness (Toyota, tragically, comes to mind).

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The shiny cool brand image of Tesla has been dramatically tarnished by musk. But worse than that is the terrible build quality of Teslas. From the driver’s seat, they just feel cheap. Also features like radar and a goddamn instrument cluster should not be deleted. That’s not elegance, it’s disdain for the safety of the customer.

Thankfully, other car companies are catching up at last. If I’m going to spend that much on a car, I’d much rather have a BMW or Mercedes.

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And apparently, they had the technology


https://www.nikonweb.com/dcs420/

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How many people does Krugman have on his payroll?

There was a reason I chose GM as the example, they literally invented the modern EV.
I think the “poorly run company” thing is a myth in that you only find out who poorly run a company is when the cash cow dies. There are lots of poorly run companies but their market dominance disguises the fact. Look at Toyota and their first EV, the wheels literally fell off. That tells me that their engineering team is phoning it in, and probably has been since the Prius.
Eastman Kodak had centered the expertise and manufacturing around film, with a side of cameras. Down sizing your core business by a factor of 1000, while growing a new business which is cannibalizing the old cash cow is a wicked problem, all while trying to fight off the newcomers crowding into a new market full of innovation market. You would need stunning management to navigate that, and they had a cash cow CEO.

I was working at GM while they were doing the EV1 and the cash cow parts of the business (engine and drive drain) were livid at the thought of that thing become popular. They shut down any talk of exporting the designs to a the markets where it would have really shined (UK/EU/KR), they wouldn’t even ship out demo vehicles.

I’ve also worked at start-ups, and they are never ‘well managed’, they always have quality control issues, they always shoot from the hip when it comes to management decisions, and they are always a cult built around their leaders, until they aren’t, and if you’re a competitor you’re f’d. Think of Microsoft the days of Gates or Balmer, the were (rightly) reviled. I hated Steve Jobs with the heat of a thousand suns, Google had the ‘Do No Evil’ mantra in their mission statement, and job interviews where a maths quiz (who needs interpersonal skills or HR?).

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Kodak also co-developed the first purpose-designed digital sensor and camera format with Olympus Corporation, the Four Thirds system. Everything before then had been adaptations of existing industrial sensors or analogue formats such as APS-C and 135.
Your image of the Nikon DCS420 is an excellent example of this; a 35mm camera body complete with reflex viewing, mirror, standard Nikkor lenses and lens mount.

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How about just explaining your ad hominem beef with Krugman now, instead of making somebody play “twenty questions” with you first :confused:

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As @Carbonman says above, Kodak invented the technology. For whatever reason, they never shifted their business in a material way to sell the new tech.

Why? Sunk cost into film processes? Correctly spotting that digital pixels aren’t as precise as chemical granules, but missing the point that a tiny minority cares? Maybe just missing the point altogether? Who knows? The result is much the same.

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How many people does Musk have on his payroll? Express your answer in the form f(t) = Ae-kt.

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I’ll also say that with GM the thought of getting into a technology race with other car companies filled them with dread… They worked really hard to keep the status quo, which is why you only saw innovation coming out of Japan through the 80s-90s (Honda VTec, Mazda RX, Toyota Hybrid etc.)

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So, like etherium? Or the coins of YAP? Or money printed on paper?

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Paul Bearer!

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