Pelosi on impeachment: 'We will proceed when we have what we need to proceed. Not one day sooner.'

boing
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I recall in the not too distant past, fox news and conservative pundits defending george W Bush. Mind you it wasn’t AS challnging… one merely had to advocate for republican ideals of defense and taxes, not defend his personal insanity as much… but think how W’s brand has crashed since he left office. Republicans dont even wanna talk about him. It’s all about’ Trump’s position and the power he has. No one really likes him, and I’m certain as soon as he is out of power, all these people that psycologically can’t let go because they’d have to admit their party and it’s platform is wrong, will drop him like a hot potato.

(that’s not to say that dropping trump will solve all of our problems… obviously racism, economic injustice, sexism, etc are all larger systemic issues we’re gonna be dealing with for a long time)

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Only if the investigations involved uncover nothing in the way of GOP involvement. (Which seems rather unlikely if you’ve seen Devin Nunuez open his mouth). And both the DNC and the media make no attempt to highlight that the GOP is at minimum complicit. You might have also noticed that there have been multiple non Trump indictments and convictions, and a shit ton of resignations.

Its not intended to. And its not neccisarily meant to be punitive either. It is meant to solve the practical problem of a dangerous president. Unqualified, criminal, or corrupt. The question there is more of whether it is warranted, and whether other less extreme means can correct the issue. The question is whether Trump needs to be removed from office. Much of what you are referring to are process concerns. Can we impeach if we need to, how do we impeach. What could happen if we fail. And largely serve to point the way to an effective outcome (or should).

And if you think Trump is getting “worse and worse” purely to bait impeachment. Then you have not been paying attention. All the “worse” things he’s doing are things he promised during his original campaign, and pushed for for years in right wing media appearances. Many of his abuses of power are things that he bragged about during the campaign, or proposed as a positive during his campaign. His expansive, Nixonian, ideas about Presidential power are all ideas he’s held and pushed from minute one. All of the people he has chosen for his administration are people who have built careers on pushing the shit they’re now doing. And many of them are fringe true believers. Or people who were chased out of politics previously over the same policies they are now implementing. And of course this is a man who has shown, repeatedly, no understanding of the role of president or its powers from the start. Everything he’s up to is entirely consistent with his childish understanding of what it means to be in charge.

Trump, or at least his lawyers, are certainly baiting the House towards impeachment in some ways. But by report Trump himself is, and has been terrified and incensed by the prospect. Given the HIGH likely hood that an actual impeachment process would find and publickly reveal things that will tank his administration. Badly embarrass him and the people around him. At a minimum. Trying to campaign on an actual in process impeachment is probably not what they’re after, why obstruct justice otherwise?

More likely they want to keep the potential for impeachment in the headlines and hanging over the next election. So that they can continue to paint it as partisan and ineffectual. And, like they did in 2018, he can use the hanging threat of impeachment as a campaign tool. Make sure to vote for GOP in congressional races because the dirty Dems are gonna go after Trump! But that didn’t work in 2018, the number one concern among midterm voters was checking Trump. And a majority of Americans are now in favor of continuing to investigate and pursuing some check on the guy. Even as impeachment is currently relatively unpopular.

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Because they have been trying all other options to get the necessary information and have reached a point where this is the only option left. Nothing moves fast in government.

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We’ve been called Marxists, snowflakes, and libtards here before.

Being called chuds is a new one.

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If he means c.h.u.ds then I take offense at the cannibal part.

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Maybe I’ve been spending too much time on the far left corners of Reddit lately but this is this the definition I have become accustomed to:

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I take offense to that too then.

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I know impeachment doesn’t solve the problem of the GOP, complicit media or complicit Democrats — all of whom worsen things on a daily basis.

My point is that impeaching Donnie and doing nothing else actually wouldn’t help. The rate Donnie’s going — and he doubles down, never backs down — he’ll take care of himself in 2020.

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Annnnd the husband of a certain advisor to trump who looks like a witch, may cast spells.

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Well 34 people have been indicted. Several are in jail. NY State is going after his charitable foundation which has already caused him to shutter it. Many people have been forced from their positions, and a good number of those are career GOP functionaries.

That’s the contention I was arguing with. There is no indication that they plan to “impeach and do nothing else”. In fact Nancy Pelosi has publicly advocated for not impeaching, but still prosecuting Trump and a bunch of other people.

And even if there was, that’s not an argument against impeachment.

In what way? I see a lot of people blaming the House of Reps for Trump’s policies that they have no direct hand in, and little congressional power to halt. And they’re filing law suits left and right over most of that shit. As are a ton of Democrat controlled states.

I hope that is a reference to guys like Joe Manchin, who you know vote with Trump.

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The GOP has to be removed from power full stop.

And yes, Manchin would be example of a complicit Dem.

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“But what if the House fails to vote for it” seems to be a vanishing concern…

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And yet there are still DNC congress members turning up and talking about how Russia is a distraction, Nancy Pelosi is bad, and we need to focus on list of Trump’s supposed policy priorities. Though careful to frame them as bipartisan concerns and not specify that the house doing anything requires participation with Trump.

There is a block of Blue Dogs here that are scared shitless of impeachment. And they’re associated with the same groups that have historically sought to replace or side line Pelosi. I’ve seen a few investigative reports that identify the “DNC staffers” “capital insiders” and “sources who say” there’s a massive divide between Pelosi and the progressive wing, and a party fracturing fight over impeachment to their offices. And when they turn up on ther Tee Vee they alternately portray themselves as representatives of leadership when AOC and other prominent progressives are the topic of discussion. And outsiders fighting the establishment when Pelosi is. In all cases they present themselves as representative of “real Democrats” who purportedly don’t care about Donald Trump and want working class blah di blah (read for white people).

I watched one of these guys scream at Rob Reiner on MSNBC the other day, hard news for sure.

These people can be whipped, but they’re the same set that keeps rat fucking important confirmation votes and what have. I don’t think an impeachment vote that’s purely partisan sells the idea particularly well. And one that can’t even muster all Democrats just gives Trump even more room to paint it as partisan and baseless.

Luckily the inquiry/investigation phase only requires committee level vote. And anything that follows from that can be expected to shift the ground.

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Yes, but is she playing the system for her benefit or ours? Remember - if she can impeach both Trump and Pence in one shot, she becomes President. But if she fires that shot and misses, she just makes Trump look that much more legitimate.

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To whom? I mean, there is his base, who already think he walks on water. Please point out the rube who, in the event of a failed removal attempt, would be newly convinced of Trump’s legitimacy?

I don’t believe such a person actually exists.

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Oh yeah. I forgot how important it was to consider right wing conspiracy the literal truth before drawing any conclusions.

The right have been sowing crazy balls about Pelosi’s purported desire to “steal” the white house from a GOP president since Bush II Electric Boogaloo. But surprisingly for some one so venomously ambitious. She isn’t running for president, has never run for president, there’s never been a serious indication that she’d like to. And she hasn’t thrown a coup yet.

But discarding all that. If she does end up finishing Trump’s term. So what? You can’t seriously think Pelosi would be worse then Pence and Trump? People who have built their administration around open white supremacists, take joy in dismantling the rule of law, and are operating literal concentration camps.

Especially given its likely to be temporary. Given the timing we’re looking at right now. If Trump is removed from office before the end of his first term, whoever takes over will likely not have time to seek re-election. They’ll run into hard deadlines on declaring a candidacy, and even if they don’t there would not likely be a ton of time to succeed.

I do think this is an under considered element of Pelosi’s position on the subject. Any speaker, none the less one who’s been so frequently accused of planning to seize power, needs to be pretty careful to avoid the implication that impeachment is driven by desire to place themselves in the white house.

There would be almost no quicker way to flip the script and see impeachment presented as a partisan abuse of power. So it’s wise to kind of stay out of it, and avoid calling for impeachment yourself.

And for those same reasons, if there’s any interest in reestablishing normalcy, and legitimacy post impeachment. Then she’d likely be done after she finished the term. Avoiding backlash and legitimacy questions would likely require specifically not running in the following election, and being clear on that. And seeking her old house seat likely wouldn’t work, and would look nearly as bad.

If Pelosi ends up in the white house as a result of this, she finishes a lame duck term, and retires. Almost guaranteed.

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You make a whole shit ton of assumptions that have zero basis in reality beyond your own fevered head. I worry that Pelosi will try to swing for the fences and fail. I don’t think Pelosi would be worse than Trump - hell, I could do better, and I’m no prize. But I’m afraid if she goes for broke, it’ll turn the 2020 election into a massive clusterfuck that could very easily galvanize the GOP and ensure Trump’s re-election.

Like I said much earlier in this thread, it’s already Summer of 2019, FFS. To try to instigate the kind of congressional shitstorm that could potentially take down both Trump and Pence before the 2020 elections is sheer madness, which is why I hope she’s not thinking about that. If there’s even a vague hope of a successful impeachment against Trump, it needs to happen before the 2020 campaign is any farther along.

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