Agreed… tell that to @Dominic_Connor up there! 
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ISIS is more correct, because it means “Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham”, while ISIL means “…of Iraq and the Levant.” al-Sham is the older term used by all jihadis and some Salafis for the region of Syria, Lebanon and parts of Iraq and Israel, while “Levant” is a Western term. So it’s more accurate to say “ISIS”.
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Can’t we all just agree to call them “Cobra”?
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They wage war. They conquer territory. They rule people at gunpoint. How are they not a state?
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Some people think a state is something respectable, rather than the institutionalization of violent psychopathy.
If that were all there was to it, every gang of street thugs would be called a “state”…
Such people would have to exclude the ones which have nuclear arsenals, which wage aggressive war, which imprison many of their own people, which have systematic rape, torture, and forced labor in their prisons, which enable rape, torture, and slavery with their border policies and coups, etc.
So they would have to redefine the most powerful states, as well as many less powerful states, as something other than states.
ISIL seems to be especially murderous, of course.
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I think we should refer to them as “Swine of Mohammed”.
Ezra Levant
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Gangs of street thugs might be considered states in their most primitive form. Eventually they might become mafias, well-established gangs, who are usually organized feudally, control territory, and provide certain social services, mostly protection from other gangs. They’re on their way!
People don’t join gangs for nothing. Usually, those recruited into gangs come from a class or ethnic group which is not receiving even minimal protection from the established authorities. ‘Those to whom evil is done do evil in return,’ etc. The beat continues and our great leaders stagger forward into the next bloody bog.
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Yeah, let’s call them bad names. That’ll show them.
Well, if you think about the history of states, when is it not the institutionalization of violence… the state is in part defined by a monopoly on violence, right? Often it’s carved out through the conquering of territory, right? Often it involves the displacement of other peoples, right? A state is supposed to be defined by the social contract, but there is a history of violence to account for as well…
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The social contract is a fiction. States are formed by war, then they may pretend to be established by some sort of contract and the mysterious consent of (some of) the governed. But nobody asked you or me if we wanted to be part of the states we’re in. They were imposed on us. As you said, the Islamic State is behaving in a state-like manner, waging war, holding territory, executing dissidents and opponents. It’s also selling oil, I believe, so I think it fits right in.
I believe people like Kerry are saying the Islamic State is ‘not a state’ because they worship the state, which after all gives them a job, money, power, and repute. It’s a way of saying ‘Nyaah, nyaah’ to some people they don’t like. I hope more intelligent thinking is being done by our great leaders, but I fear that it is not.
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I thought you were arguing against considering them a state? I agree that they are acting like a state. I’m also well aware that the social contract is a fiction dreamed up to benefit some and not all.
Not to mention this ISIS (International Spinal Intervention Society… http://www.spinalinjection.org)!
Language has more power than you think.
One of the biggest reasons the Republicans have as much power as they do right now is because they are way, way, WAY better at framing an issue than the Democrats. “Obamacare”, “Death Tax”, “Job Creators”. Sure, your average educated Boinger has a good laugh over that sort of soundbyte, but for a huge swath of the country, they hear it and they believe it.
Find a name that discredits them in the eyes of their supporters and hammer hammer hammer it home until nobody can think of them as anything else.
No, I think they’re a state. The talk about not being a state and being terrorists is merely name-calling, as if our mighty leaders were a bunch of eight-year-olds. I guess that shouldn’t surprise us.
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With what media do you propose to do this hammering?
