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I was simply addressing the issue of how could these people jump through the mental hoops to justify it all. The main difference is they frame it all in 1900 religious doctrine while you are looking at it from a modetn liberal viewpoint (which isnt bad by any means). For those that I know who fit the pro-life religious conservative side, birth control isn’t needed because sex is not shown in a positive light. You don’t want to procreate, fine just don’t have sex…
I’m not saying I agree with any of it, just trying to shed some light into how some of the people I know think. Personally, I’m pro-choice, but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-life, I think everyone should have choices.
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Indeed. The central scene, oddly enough, is there in the movie poster show there…
Poland is pretty much 100% Catholic. Even though the younger generations aren’t that religious, Catholicism plays a strong cultural role, and was instrumental in the Solidarność movement in the 1980s and basically getting Poland out from under communism. I’m sure Poland has a religious right of their own, who feel their way of life is slipping away.
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No, they merely say they do. The laws are for everyone else: they have unprotected sex, adulterous sex, abortions, etc. at least* as often as everyone else.
*I was lying there by using such a generous term. All the ones I know personally, they make the rest of us look like angels.
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“Whoever causes the death of the unborn child is punishable by imprisonment up to three years. If I have a patient with pre-eclampsia, who is 32 weeks pregnant, I will have to let her and her child die.”
It’s mind-boggling to me that any physician would chose to let his patient die on the table because he was worried that he might go to jail. Saving her life and taking a stand for such action could be the best way to bring about a change in the law.
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It’s not an easy decision to make, and I don’t think anyone should have to make that decision. In theory, I’d say that I’d save the woman’s life and go to jail, but confronted with that actual choice, there’s no telling what I’d do.
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Maybe not.
Saving her life means the resultant media story would be about you and your legal battle. Not saving her life means the media story would be about the reality of the law causing death instead of saving it.
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This assumes that the purpose is to prevent abortions. Taking a stance against all abortion and contraception (and even other programs proven to reduce abortion or take care of children*) shows very conclusively that’s not the purpose. Which means their position is actually really consistent - because the real purpose, ultimately, is to punish those slutty sluts (i.e. women) for having sex. Or being raped. For being women, basically. It’s very consistent in doing that.
*For instance, the Republican war on Planned Parenthood in Texas caused, in less than two years, the maternal mortality rate to double. It’s now about ten times what it is in some other first world countries, and exceeds those of some third world countries. The whole maternal mortality rate in the US has increased significantly as a result of that and the loss of family planning clinics in other states. Mission accomplished!
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Too bad they expend megatrumps lying about it.
Is it really too much to ask that we get a handle on caring and providing for the already born before going batshit crazy about the not yet?
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They don’t care about anyone living. They simply want the maximum body count (generally for odd religious reasons).
It’s why the situation is so absurd, it’s like they actively want to have as many miserable people existing as possible.
I’d actually have more time for them if they genuinely cared for and supported the lives they’re helping to create, but frequently the opposite happens.
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It’s already happened at least once in Ireland. In that case, the baby was already dead (miscarriage) but the doctors were too cowed by the priests and the government to “abort” it, so the mother died of septicaemia: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal
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Any examination of the history of medicine makes it abundantly clear that physicians on average are no more ethical or courageous than anyone else.
Things like the Hippocratic Oath came about due to widespread malpractice, not because medics are paragons of virtue. The Holocaust began in Germany’s hospitals and asylums.
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Personal responsibility sounds great. I’m all for it - actually I think society in general tilts too far towards blaming everybody but the individual whose decisions led to a bad outcome.
In abortion though - I think the decision to go through with a painful and stigmatizing procedure when you realize you don’t have the ability / will to raise a child is being responsible. Nobody goes through that for fun.
Also, contraception is not foolproof. What if the condom breaks? What if you took the pill but got pregnant anyway? What if your partner is too macho to use a condom, throws your pills away, and to defy him means you are out on the street, disowned by your family, etc? What if you wanted the child, but just discovered your husband is cheating?He just died / lost his job and now you don’t know how you are going to feed your other four kids never mind the one on the way? Life is complex.
The best person to make the decision about whether an abortion is right for her is the woman involved, not some priest who won’t lift a finger to help her.
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Thank you dear grandparents for leaving Poland when you did.
Anyone know why most of the signs in the photos seem to be in English?
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Funny how you’d still lose your license in all the righteous media coverage. Not to mention it takes more than one person for these treatments-- the decision to treat is not just an individual one, but an institutional one.
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Just a correction - the baby was not yet ‘dead’, I.e. it still had a heartbeat. But death for the baby was the only possible outcome at that point. A timely abortion would almost certainly have saved the mother, but instead they waited for the baby to ‘die’ naturally and sadly by that time Savita was septicemic and it was far too late for her.
Just a note, this happens in North American Catholic hospitals as well, it just doesn’t make it onto the front page.
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Again, it’s not just one doctor. It’s a whole treatment team. The hospital ultimately has the decision on what treatment can take place. Even in a middle of the night scenario, you still need nurses and doctors and techs, all of whom could lose their jobs, freedom and future livelihood.
No matter how favorable the press might be in the aftermath, that’s a group of people who may never be employed again in their chosen field.
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That “heartbeat” has been disputed as inaccurate. The mother was already in the middle of a miscarriage at 17 weeks, after all.
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