i’ve used trigonometry and algebra to work out how many fenceposts and how much wire to purchase. my father and i wrote and solved a differential equation to work out the optimal length of time between stopping and remixing a solution we were spraying on peach trees when the agitator in the sprayer went out and we didn’t have time to get a mechanic out to fix it. i’ve used algebra numerous times when i worked as a housekeeping supervisor to help me keep track of inventories and ordering times on cleaning products. in my opinion anyone who says you don’t need anything past four function arithmetic in life just isn’t even trying.
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oh man that last bit with pi. seriously, “as far as we know?” I can’t even.
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Now, I agree that basic stats and quantitative reasoning would be a lot more useful for most people than trig and calculus. (I’m an engineer, and I use stats a whole lot more than calculus)
That said, maybe not Calc, but algebra and basic trig have extremely wide ranging utility (if you ever try to build anything, you will be better at it if you can do basic trig. If you ever try to program a computer to do anything, the kind of symbolic reasoning you learn from calc will stand you in good stead.) And I would say, especially, that it destroying someone’s GPA is the worst reason ever to avoid requiring basic competency in an important field in public education. I love art, literature, and music, and would never disparage their importance, but I also think you’re completely off base saying that quantitative reasoning is somehow less important than those subjects.
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I’m given to understand that Discrete Math has the most utility for computer science. My math background is limited to Lin Alg, Calculus and DifEQ, though
Probably you’re right. The kind of programming I do, linear algebra is far more useful than any other kind of math, but I’m a physicist, not a proper computer scientist.
I think they kept 2 day weekends in that 10 day per week scheme. Going from ~28.5% weekend to 20% is not progress.
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Your doctor should have, at both undergraduate and post-graduate level.
I’ll freely admit to sucking at algebra and calculus (I wish I didn’t, but I’ve not used it since High School), but medical school and studying for specialist exams mean I’m good enough with Statistics to find holes in the design and analysis of clinical trials; and to make a competent job of appropriately designing and analysing small internal studies. Not to mention knowing enough Stats to be very frustrated by the data abuse that gets published in the press and spouted on TV …
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I’ve been saying for years that the one thing that every educational system absolutely needs to teach is critical thinking.
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Isn’t there a joke about how engineers will do their best to avoid calculus, and when they can’t it means they’re in trouble?
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Agree that doctors should have studies statistics, and I guess they have. However, I’ve also seen claims that medical professionals often fail to grasp Bayesian probabilities and the true implications of stated testing accuracy. That is, they can’t correctly answer questions like this.
“A patient tests positive (no other symptoms) for a disease that occurs in 1 in 1,000,000 people. The testing is 99% accurate (1% false positives and 1% false negatives). What is the chance the patient actually has the disease?”
Properly designed and controlled clinical trials are extremely difficult to design and execute and it is also very difficult to correctly interpret the results. Patient facing medical professionals don’t need to be absolutely expert in this stuff, but a degree of competence is important.
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Imperial weeks or metric? (I kid, I kid :D)
But it’s 8640076. Except leap years, leap seconds, time zone offsets, or if you are a satellite travelling thousands of miles an hour. (Time annoys me, and it annoys me I know so much about it)
Even after implementing bayesian classifiers I still get shit like that wrong.
I think a doctor can keep you alive and have a good bedside manner. If you feel comfortable with your doctor, you’re more inclined to be honest and open with them, which can help them to diagnose problems early on.
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I don’t think not understanding higher level math means one is entirely “math illiterate”…
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Of course not. It seemed to me that another poster was bragging about never having to do algebra at all (not even 5 minutes) in his whole life. Algebra in daily life is not higher mathematics.
Yes, it’s often counter-intuitive. I tend to use diagrams to help me understand the Bayesian probabilities. Frequency in general population on one axis and test results on the other in the example I gave. I find this makes it easier to work from first principles than remember the “boolean-style” equations.
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Now I’m imagining a ranch with cupcakes roaming the hills.
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100% agree. Technical competence and human-relationship skills are certainly not mutually exclusive.
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They should ALL be optional, but offered. I absolutely want to see high school kids be able to take all the Calculus, trig, and linear algebra they want; if someone wants to be an engineer, give them those tools. But kids who want to build robots shouldn’t be forced to take life drawing any more than kids who are gifted artists should be forced to take Algebra II; both will hate and resent a big chunk of their schedule and gain nothing from it but a bad grade. All kids should have the same basic foundation of algebra, science, literature, and writing, possibly art. But higher math and science as well as higher lit and letters and art should be options to choose from.
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Sounds very different from the England & Wales system, where you can dump everything you don’t like at 16 and never think about it again (I think the Scottish Highers system is a little broader).
I didn’t study anything that was not science or engineering after my GCSEs, apart from one crappy mandatory module at university on business management.
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