2 Likes
This subject always reveals who’s never been further than a mile away from a two story building.
2 Likes
Obviously semiauto ar and ak pattern weapons are insufficient for this problem. That’s why we need to make claymore mines and ground based CWIS turrets broadly available to the general public.
If this hog problem keeps getting worse we may even need to open up GBUs, fast attack aircraft, torpedo boats, self propelled artillery and if push comes to shove, nuclear mines to control this unstoppable rampage.
3 Likes
Best/most humane practice in hunting is 1 shot 1 kill. Ammunition caliber is carefully chosen for a particular size or even species of game so that with proper placement you can reliably bring down an animal with one shot, so that it will die as instantly as possible, but withj minimal damage to the meat or hide.
Assault rifles, particularly modern ones, take kind of the opposite approach. The idea is to combine a smaller, less powerful cartridge with high firing rates and low recoil. That way you don’t need very careful shot placement, or a bullet large enough to kill in a single shot. Cause you just put more bullets in some one.
Game is classified by weight. So you’ve got small, for stuff like squirrels, varmint for slightly bigger animals. Medium for stuff like deer (also people technically fit), large and so forth.
The .223 ammo used in most assault rifles isn’t large enough to reliably bring down anything above varmint size with a single shot. So hunting regulations usually bar it for use on anything larger. And even with small animals it does to much damage to the meat and hides to be a practical hunting round. So its only used in pest control, and excepting the pigs, only for little critters.
ETA: Its also a safety thing. Fewer bullets flying around means less chance of one ending up where it shouldn’t be. And carefully considering each shot makes it more likely you’ll shoot in a safe direction with an adequate back stop.
My state actually limits how many rounds you’re allowed to load into a fire arm while hunting and there are actually blocks/limiters for internal magazines so you can prove you didn’t over load it by making the gun incapable of loading more than the regulation say you can. Believe its 3 rounds for shotguns 5 for rifles.
4 Likes
Also in combat wounding an enemy is more effective as you take them and the others needed to treat them out of the fight.
4 Likes
Yep. The whole doctrine behind the use of 5.56mm ammo is that 7.62mm/.308 is unnecessarily high powered. For equivalent weight you can carry more rounds of 5.56 and while 5.56 may not be as deadly, it is both sufficient for incapacitating wounding and will likely cause the enemy to spend time on treating the wounded.
1 Like
simply put… dude needs a donkey
1 Like
The thing we always have to remember is that its very important to do those things to pigs now. Cause it will save children/the environment.
1 Like
A lot of state-level land management agencies say individual hunting disperses sounders. Hunting from helicopters even more so, but it’s so much fun you’ll never convince them it isn’t a legit practice. Trapping seems to be the most effective large-scale way to deal with the problem. In many managed areas, individual hunting is now prohibited in favor of more methodical approaches.
2 Likes
Oblig:
3 Likes
It’s amazing how many people feel entitled to run their mouth’s when they obviously haven’t listened to the linked podcast. Of course this is the Internet so I really shouldn’t be surprised.
1 Like
We gotta fight the pigs in texas now so we won’t have to fight them in new york in a few years
3 Likes
Oh I’m sure the desire to mass shoot feral hogs legitimizes the desire to own weapons specifically designed to be excellent for mass shootings of humans.
I listened to the podcast. I agree, feral hogs are a problem. I also believe that uncoordinated random mass shootings by average citizens with weapons of war is ineffective, and that this problem isn’t a legitimate reason why fucking anyone should be allowed to just go out and buy rifles with high rate of fire and high capacity magazines designed for mass shooting.
11 Likes
Culling in general isn’t a practical way to limit or shrink the population. Because the number of individuals you need to take every year is impractically high. Got six million pigs? Kill like 3 million a year just to hold at 6 million.
Culling over populated or invasive animals is more like a localized spot treatment. And a temporary one. Shift the density away from areas where they’re causing damage. But with the amount of hogs in certain states I don’t think its even doing that. You hear about farms in Texas where people have been culling hundreds of pigs a day, from herds of thousands. Every day. For years. And the pigs are still right in the same spot.
That particular fight is already lost. Now we need fully automatic weapons to prevent a population the size of Texas’ from establishing itself here.
1 Like
I wasn’t questioning the rationale for humane hunting (one shot, one kill) or the safety of lots of rounds flying around. I was merely questioning your assertion that “It can’t reliably bring an animal down in a single shot” due to small caliber. I certainly understand that there are accuracy issues with an assault rifle versus a long rifle, however I think that it has been well demonstrated that a .223 or 5.56mm round can bring down a human being, and some of these rounds are even used in sniper rifles. These rounds can be pretty deadly when fragmenting (hollow-point) rounds are used.
The main problem is that the BLM (and state by state fish and game depts) do not have the resources to do really exhaustive feral hog eradication efforts. Combine that with the reproductive rate of pigs, and well… you’ve got the problem that currently exists.
1 Like
On that front it seems to be down the size of the round and energy it hits the animal with. There’s a lot of talk of “wound channel” and internal shock waves with hunting rounds. When you get right down to it you can kill a moose with a single .22lr if you’re close enough and shot placement is perfect. And people have taken white tailed deer with .17 air rifles. But practically speaking with the .223/5.56 the “kill zone” (the area of an animals chest where any hit will produce a clean kill) on medium and large game is considered too small to reliably and regularly hit in real world hunting conditions. Expanding ammo for hunting exists, but from what I understand its not too popular as it does a lot more damage to the meat than a larger round would. (ETA I’m not 100% on that, I don’t know many rifle hunters. Cause there’s just about nowhere to do it around here. It might be that expanding ammo isn’t good for making an undersized round work. But is good for making an appropriate sized round work better. From what my brother in army says expanding hunting rounds expand less and don’t fragment compared to “defense” rounds.)
So basically yes you can kill larger game with 1 shot using these, but it is much more difficult to do. And taken in aggregate you will less often kill the animal with one shot. Additionally you want the animal to die quickly and with too small of a round, it is less likely that any given lethal shot will do that.
This is not anything specific to that round, it just the general theory for selecting (and designing) rounds for hunting. It needs to be big enough to maximize the chance/ability for a quick, clean kill in a single shot. But not so big that it destroys what you’re after, whether that is meat or hide. Intermediate rifle calibers like .223 just tend to fall into a no-mans land. They’re too small and low powered to be reliable on medium to large game. And too large and powerful to preserve meat on small and varmint game. And simply put with military cartridges none of that’s a concern. Quick death, lingering death, one bullet or 3, nothing left in the end. All of it is desirable.
They really aren’t. There are civilian bolt actions and tacticool sniper style rifles for target shooting. But intermediate cartridges aren’t used in military sniper rifles. And .223/5.56 is from what I understand weird at longer ranges. They are used in “marksman” rifles, more accurate some times sniper style weapons used for more accurate shooting over the same range that assault rifles are effective. But at their simplest these are just the exact same assault rifle with an added scope. And many of them also use full sized rifle cartridges usually 7.62. That sort of duty used to be part of sniping, but its a separate thing with separate equipment these days.
And with regards to expanding and fragmenting bullets. They’re banned from use in warfare by the Hague Convention.
Not that that really means anything for mass shootings. But its kind of a fucked that you can put more deadly bullets in these things than the military can.
1 Like
Missouri has had decent success of late. One key factor was to make hunting of hogs illegal. During the 20 years where hunting was legal the hog population increased because the locals were starting new popup colonies of pigs to hunt. You could tell something was up because pigs would appear 100 miles away from the nearest known hog activity.
14 Likes
That’s the way to go.
In fact, this thread is becoming a good example of why the historical response to feral pigs is so useless, in the same way.
For years, everybody spent the majority of time talking about shitty little “one person defending their castle” scenarios, and macho hunting masturbation techniques instead of dealing with the problem on a macro level.
10 Likes
I assume there is no way to shoot/dart/whatever the hogs with birth-control medication?
1 Like
