If we don’t, then what? Yes, people who voted for Trump are okay with those things existing, but their priorities may be messed up. I am certainly not ignoring that. There are two issues here: Trump winning and Clinton losing. I do not fault anyone for not voting Clinton, as it was a literal last-minute decision for me, especially when anyone who didn’t vote for Clinton is now suddenly a racist and a sexist. Did bigotry play a role? Yes, absolutely. Is it the only reason? No, and anyone who thinks so is being intentionally dishonest and looking for scapegoats.
I explained what I meant by that, I think. It’s the politicians and the media, mostly. They could have listened and learned from all of this as it was happening, and this election would have been a Democratic landslide all across the board, but they didn’t, and they fucking bohicaed it. People like me don’t exist to people like them, and apparently not even when they need my vote. What does it matter to them? They will still have jobs in the Trump administration and in the same TV networks they already work in. All that’s changed for them is the owner of the boots they gladly lick.
Of course, I don’t feel much love for smug upper middle class assholes who think they’re better than me because their grandparents went to Harvard, who now have one more reason to think they’re better than me, and are now armed with righteous indignation. I did everything I could to stop this from happening. I am the one trying to drag them kicking and screaming into the real world, not the other way around.
[quote=“LearnedCoward, post:61, topic:89213”]
Did bigotry play a role? Yes, absolutely. Is it the only reason? No, and anyone who thinks so is being intentionally dishonest and looking for scapegoats.
[/quote]Not even I said this. No one said that “only racism” voted Trump in, but a lot of people from the area - even the pundits - are willing to kick some dirt over it and then provide an excuse.
I was wrong about how many white people switched from Hillary to Trump, and you are wrong saying if someone voted for Obama and not for Hillary has none of Trump’s shit on their hands. You cared enough for social issues you don’t face day-in-and-day-out to barely vote for Hillary. That doesn’t make you a hero for the cause, but you at least made an effort to not regress social policy. Sure Bernie would have been your vote. That is probably the thing that maters least about your participation in the election, but it is important for next time which is also what every single person your holier than thou lecturing said.
Your protest is known, and this the first time you seem to be coming around to moving forward. So now what are you going to do? Are you going to try and make change from the inside like Bernie has committed to, or are you going to start voting third party unless you are catered to?
Looking at actual numbers instead of percentages it looks like it was less ‘fuck loads of white people voted for Trump’ and more ‘lots of white people just didn’t show up to vote’. Check out the chart, turns out that ‘his policies and ideology are really racist’ doesn’t mass motivate white people who won’t be directly affected.
But she tells us exactly who she’s talking to, and it’s explicitly white multi-culturalists who didn’t vote for Trump : “Don’t try to distance yourself from the bad apples and say, “It’s not my fault, I didn’t vote for him.”"
So the joke, assuming it is one, fails because the people she’s targeting are specifically those who do not believe in collective responsibility for either Muslims or whites. That’s not “clever,” that’s just unfunny, and only counts as irony in the weak Morissette sense of “a thing that really sucks.”
I think a lot of those Americans would ask you why you think Obama was even trying to do all that much for working-class and declining-middle-class Americans. In fiscal terms (just for starters), he’s a centrist – neoliberal-Republican-lite isn’t an unfair characterization, and Clinton is even more so. The Democratic establishment has shifted so far to the right that it left behind people it used to be able to count on. And so, the perception those people have of the Democratic establishment as out-of-touch elites is actually accurate. Yes, Republicans did fight Obama to a ridiculous degree, and their policies are worse, but how about asking the Dem establishment to share in the blame? It lost, and in some ways, it deserved to lose.
Who knows. It’s clear that he would have been fighting for ordinary people in economic terms, and that would have inspired a lot of pressure on Congress, including in the next election rounds, to do what he’d be saying.
I agree with the rest of your comment, but here… Did they really lean into it? Did Clinton, for instance, keep hammering away with Bernie’s message about the ridiculously huge wealth gap? He expressed empathy with all declining-fortunes working people, including white ones. Clinton didn’t – her message was basically about her, and about how she was so much better than Trump. Consider that slogan, “I’m with her.” She didn’t spend nearly enough time and energy clearly and convincingly saying to white people who feel their circumstances have continued to decline under Obama, “I’m with you.” Trump, however deceptively, did. Which in that sense makes his appeal more “progressive” than Clinton’s was (so yes, I do agree that the DNC shot itself in the foot when it screwed Sanders).
I never said that. Acknowledging racism and sexism doesn’t negate other factors. I never said it did. Do you think that anyone actually believes that, especially here. I don’t understand why I’m expected to accept misogyny when it impacts my life a fair amount.[quote=“LearnedCoward, post:61, topic:89213”]
It’s the politicians and the media, mostly.
[/quote]
And how much control do you think I personally have over that? Same as you, actually. [quote=“LearnedCoward, post:61, topic:89213”]
People like me don’t exist to people like them
[/quote]
do you think they give a shit about me, either? [quote=“LearnedCoward, post:61, topic:89213”]
I did everything I could to stop this from happening. I am the one trying to drag them kicking and screaming into the real world, not the other way around.
[/quote]
Do you think you’re the only one? Do you think I’m not doing all I can?
I sort of feel like you’re laying the blame somewhat at my feet when I’m in the same situation that you are. Only, I’m also a woman.
No, there’s really not. The election is over and winning/losing is a moot point now.
Now the issue is weathering whatever damage the president elect does as best we can, and working to make sure that something more than ashes & ruins are left when he’s done.
Today I’m not thinking about Hilary or her shortcomings, or the failings of the Democrats, or pointing fingers at anyone who supported Trump, or focusing on whom I should blame. Today I’m reviewing my health care coverage I have through my job, to make sure I’ll be okay when the ACA is neglected, if not gutted outright.
It looks like personally I’ll be okay as long as I keep my current job.
If you are not part of the solutions, you are part of the problem. Standing by and saying, “well its not my group, I don’t need to be concerned” makes you as much of the reason these things exist.
Except when they are outright saying they want to do harm to various people such as:
People relying on the ACA for their healthcare
Women who may not want to bring a pregnancy to full term
Muslims
People of color who exercise rights of free speech and assembly to protest the governemnt
Atheists
Gays
Anyone fleeing war or civil strife to be an American
sigh I’m not surprised. These are the same people who told me that I was betraying our people by not voting for Dubya back in '04, afterall, and on the same exact logic.
Clinton lost over 10% of the Democratic voters from the last election, while Trump lost 3% of Republicans. That could easily explain the 2% difference.
If you’re worried about your livelihood, you’re not going to go with the group telling you that you’re privileged and already have too much.
This is true, but it’s also Monday-morning-quarterbacking, “well, she shoulda done this…”-- for whatever reason the polling was way off, and she seemed to think her message was resonating with people. A lot of us trusted the polls (especially since conservatives got burned last time by not believing the polls)*; so far what I’ve read about why the polls were so wrong seems to be mostly speculation, and I suspect it may eventually be tied to changing demographics and technology and general public attitudes about polling on the ground.
[*This presents an interesting point-- conservatives have this conspiracy-minded idea that the media deliberately fudges the polls to help the Democrats, as if reporting that Hillary is ahead is a boon to her campaign. Clearly it had the opposite effect.]
