Well, I mean, he wasn’t (as far as we know) trying to rape children. So there’s that - that is pretty different. But of course that doesn’t make what he did do any more acceptable - there’s always something worse (“Well, he didn’t personally commit genocide…”) than what someone did, whatever it is.
No, but it doesn’t have to be, to still be totally unacceptable, though.
The photo doesn’t show evidence of a groping while she slept, but the photo doesn’t disprove a groping either. For instance the moment the photo was snapped he could have groped her.
If this is true it changes things drastically to the extent that one might believe she’s making most of it up.
However, I haven’t seen any evidence of this quote from the photographer, if you have a credible source please post it.
I’m not going to say what the consequences for him should be, for a bunch of reasons, chief among them that my opinion is of no value here.
I’m also not going to say he should get away with something just because he’s otherwise been a force for good. That’s not how making a moral stand works.
What I will say is, if it pisses you off to lose Al Franken as a senator, you should demand that the example-making continue until every Republican example has also been made. If Franken resigns just as Roy Moore is welcomed into the Senate, that won’t be a victory for anyone.
The photo (and I am talking only about the photo now) lies somewhere between this
and this
on the scale of moral wrongness.
The guy in the first photo also didn’t consent to have his bodily autonomy violated in a sexually degrading manner. That joke was funny exactly once, when the first person ever thought of manifesting that possibility, probably 300 years ago. I would strongly prefer not to have it done to me. But I’d still stop well short of calling that puerile joke “totally unacceptable” in a barred-for-life-from-public-existence way.
Note: I’m not prescribing forgiveness or saying this somehow makes everything ok, and for all we know more people will come out saying he harassed them. I’m just saying the way things are playing out thus far seem reasonable.
I’d really be interested in hearing what women think of this, though.
The notion of groping someone through a flak jacket is the whole gag of the photo.
Stupid, yes.
Juvenile, yes.
Funny, a little.( Sorry )
Explaining a joke always kills it, and if you try to analyze the content of a joke as serious, well as Lenny Bruce may say “it’s a real drag”
The stolen/forced kiss, is more concerning. But even that seems on the level of an apology and maybe some other form of healing action to the harmed individual, along with a change of ways.
I’m glad this reckoning is coming, it will cause people to be more careful.
But lets keep it in perspective, many of these allegations are way worse than others. Some deserve to lose their whole career. Others need to apologize, reconcile, and repent.
Cosby/Weinstein = Seriously fucked up, deserves end to career and to rot in jail.
Spacey/Moore = slightly less fucked up, anyone who fucks with teens needs to be dealt with.
Louis CK = what a schmuck, he’s getting his comeuppance, but has at least owned up to it. I believe he will do more to fix ( if we let him )
Al Franken = Juvenile humor, and unwelcome advances, I’ve already said what he should do.
Keep pointing your fingers,
but leave the pitchforks and torches in the trunk.
(save those for the pussy grabbers and rapists)
The left seems fine with kicking out creeps, the right circles the wagons.
I think there would be zero people here trying to find a way Franken is actually innocent if he was a Republican. He admits it an apologizes for it and there are still people here in this forum saying it didn’t really happen and Tweeden is lying. What the heck is going on? Is it so unbelievable that one of our guys might be a scumbag?
Interesting point!
It’s all wagon-circling here, though.
Not unbelievable, no. Is it so unbelievable that her story might not be wholly accurate? Might it not be worth waiting to see how this develops before jumping to conclusions and calling for his head?
Have you seen any reason—any reason at all—to doubt the veracity of her story?
I’m pretty sure the described kissing IS groping; doesn’t matter if he fondled her head or breasts. The photo is just supporting evidence that they were together and Franken had bad sense or propriety and boundaries at the time.
Yes. Franken’s claim that the kiss rehearsal didn’t happen the way she has stated.
She described the photo as groping, which it doesn’t appear to have been (unless there was post-photo groping not recorded there, but no reason to believe that happened). Someone up thread has claimed the photographer cast further doubt on her side of the story as well, yet to be verified. Franken himself disagrees with her description of the second incident. So yes, several reasons to doubt. We should also doubt what he has to say, and wait to see how it all shakes out.
He did not make any such claim. He said he didn’t remember the kiss rehearsal happening the way she remembers it.
Which to me is a polite way of denying her account.
That is a problem, yes. A different problem, but still a problem.
Asleep? In a flack jacket? That must be a really brutal USO tour.
Apparently she was playing dead (also not an especially funny joke, given the outfit and context)? That implies some level of awareness higher than sleep - like, at least enough to know a photographer was there. I’m not sure how much consent is required if no contact took place. Its a rude gesture, and a sexist joke, but a violation of consent?
